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You're reading into it. Making a bigger deal out of it than should be.
What's the "big deal" I'm making out of it? I'm just stating the obvious, that Mary was indeed special.
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
It wasn't a title.
Bible scholars and theologians disagree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
When I say "I pray thee....show me...." Am I praying to you? Or talking?
You're communicating. The word "prayer" has developed a religious connotation to the point that we don't generally use it anymore when describing face to face conversation; but that's a semantic issue. The way you used the word "I pray thee" is an archaic way of speaking, in which "to pray" could definitely include face to face conversation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
He talked to her. He didn't pray to her.
In Catholic parlance, it's the same thing.
Not only did Peter pray to a dead woman, but Paul prayed for a dead man in 2 Timothy 1:18, "may the Lord grant that he will find mercy from the Lord on that day!" The "he" prayed for by Paul is Onesiphorus who had already died.
What's the "big deal" I'm making out of it? I'm just stating the obvious, that Mary was indeed special.
Bible scholars and theologians disagree with you.
You're communicating. The word "prayer" has developed a religious connotation to the point that we don't generally use it anymore when describing face to face conversation; but that's a semantic issue. The way you used the word "I pray thee" is an archaic way of speaking, in which "to pray" could definitely include face to face conversation.
In Catholic parlance, it's the same thing.
Not only did Peter pray to a dead woman, but Paul prayed for a dead man in 2 Timothy 1:18, "may the Lord grant that he will find mercy from the Lord on that day!" The "he" prayed for by Paul is Onesiphorus who had already died.
Mike, this man Onesiphorus was a born-again Christian who helped Paul many times to get the Gospel out.
The mercy Paul was asking for was not a prayer of salvation, for the righteous have no sin in the sight of God with Christ being the propitiation for any sin.
Paul was asking for mercy at the Judgement Seat of Christ where the rewards are given or not given for what we have done. Paul was just reminding the Lord of what he had done for him and wanted him to receive all the rewards he was worthy of!
As far as Mary, she would tell us the same she told the servants at the wedding party. "Whatever He says, do it!"
Mike, this man Onesiphorus was a born-again Christian who helped Paul many times to get the Gospel out.
The mercy Paul was asking for was not a prayer of salvation, for the righteous have no sin in the sight of God with Christ being the propitiation for any sin.
Paul was asking for mercy at the Judgement Seat of Christ where the rewards are given or not given for what we have done. Paul was just reminding the Lord of what he had done for him and wanted him to receive all the rewards he was worthy of!
So we are in agreement that Paul prayed for a dead man.
So we are in agreement that Paul prayed for a dead man.
Since the 'dead know nothing', nothing but ' sleep ' -> John 11:11-14; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 <- then there would be No reason for Paul to pray for a dead person - Romans 6:7,23.
Rather, Paul would look forward to the future resurrection as Luke wrote about at Acts 24:15 that 'there is going to be' (future) a resurrection........
Now we're floating around in that Catholic limbo thing!
I knew you wouldn't agree, even after reading the praise Paul had for this man in his faithfulness.
I thought we were in agreement that Paul did pray for Onesiphorus...
Now I'm confused...
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