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CCCyou,
re: "kecharitōmenē ? , and you conclude 'the Messiah's attitude' would be different from God the Fathers'?"
I was merely pointing out what scripture indicates the Messiah's attitude was with regard to Mary. And why do you suppose that none of the New Testament epistle writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit to mention her if she is intended to be such a vital part of the Roman/Latin Rite Catholic religion? And even John's gospel never mentions her when it mentions Mary of Bethany 9 times and Mary Magdalene 5 times?
What's the "big deal" I'm making out of it? I'm just stating the obvious, that Mary was indeed special.
Bible scholars and theologians disagree with you.
Look hard enough and you'll even find ones that think that we have to be forgiven of sins by a priest.
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You're communicating. The word "prayer" has developed a religious connotation to the point that we don't generally use it anymore when describing face to face conversation; but that's a semantic issue. The way you used the word "I pray thee" is an archaic way of speaking, in which "to pray" could definitely include face to face conversation.
I agree. And that's my point.
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In Catholic parlance, it's the same thing.
Nonsense.
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Not only did Peter pray to a dead woman, but Paul prayed for a dead man in 2 Timothy 1:18, "may the Lord grant that he will find mercy from the Lord on that day!" The "he" prayed for by Paul is Onesiphorus who had already died.
No. He did not. He was expressing a hope. Just as a Baptist pastor might say the same thing of any dear departed saint.
re: "kecharitōmenē ? , and you conclude 'the Messiah's attitude' would be different from God the Fathers'?"
I was merely pointing out what scripture indicates the Messiah's attitude was with regard to Mary. And why do you suppose that none of the New Testament epistle writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit to mention her if she is intended to be such a vital part of the Roman/Latin Rite Catholic religion? And even John's gospel never mentions her when it mentions Mary of Bethany 9 times and Mary Magdalene 5 times?
Plus, after Jesus was baptized he referred to Mary as ' woman ' - John 2:4; John 19:26 B
I was merely pointing out what scripture indicates the Messiah's attitude was with regard to Mary.
Actually the scriptures reveal that Mary is very much Alive in Christ!, as we are called to be.
Your interpretation of the scriptures must be severely flawed if you conclude that Jesus's 'attitude with regard to Mary' differs from God the Father's!
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Originally Posted by rstrats
And why do you suppose that none of the New Testament epistle writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit to mention her if she is intended to be such a vital part of the Roman/Latin Rite Catholic religion? And even John's gospel never mentions her when it mentions Mary of Bethany 9 times and Mary Magdalene 5 times?
Huh?
Scriptures tells that 'all generations shall call her Blessed'!! ,
and that 'her soul magnifies! (Μεγαλύνει ) The Lord'!!
How could you have possibly missed that??
Actually the scriptures reveal that Mary is very much Alive in Christ!, as we are called to be.
Your interpretation of the scriptures must be severely flawed if you conclude that Jesus's 'attitude with regard to Mary' differs from God the Father's!
Huh?
Scriptures tells that 'all generations shall call her Blessed'!! ,
and that 'her soul magnifies! (Μεγαλύνει ) The Lord'!!
How could you have possibly missed that??
That is not in the epistles, to which the poster you quoted specifically referred and which supposedly form the basis of the Church.
God thinks enough of Mary that thru her Our Savior is made visible/knowable....
and you conclude 'the Messiah's attitude' would be different from God the Fathers'?
Of course not - at least not in this instance. He simply found a maiden who met His requirements for functioning as a gestation vehicle for His son.
Of course not - at least not in this instance. He simply found a maiden who met His requirements for functioning as a gestation vehicle for His son.
Yes, sadly that is the position on Mary taught and swallowed whole by Fundies these days.
Not even the Reformers themselves stooped to those lows - see Martin Luther, Calvin, Zwingly... ** below.
This video does a good job of separating Fundie Fiction from Bible Fact on Mary:
** Zwingli: "I esteem immensely the Mother of God" and "The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow". Martin Luther: "The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart." Calvin: "To this day we cannot enjoy the blessing brought to us in Christ without thinking at the same time of that which God gave as adornment and honour to Mary, in willing her to be the mother of his only-begotten Son."
and dozens more of their quotes at: https://servantofchrist.tripod.com/b...ther/id20.html https://preachersinstitute.com/2012/...inity-of-mary/
or a short video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLjvYS2Tekc
I read the book, then I gave it to my friend (who, by the way, is the person I know who walks the Christian walk more than any other person I've ever met).
You're not the first person I've heard say this or something similar about a Catholic. I'd have to say as well that the most Christ-like people I've ever known have been Catholics.
It's almost like there's something inherent to the Catholic Faith that more profoundly enables one to live a holy life
all generations shall call her Blessed[/i]'!! ,
and that 'her soul magnifies! (Μεγαλύνει ) The Lord'!!
How could you have possibly missed that??
"
I was referring to the epistle writers.
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