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Somewhere along the way, an apostsy took place, the lawleas apostasy we were warned and warned about.
Doing what you do, standing against everything called of God or worshipped of God. What do you think that means O Lawless One?
Now you sell us lawless, Babylonian ways instead of the ways of Jesus.
Tell me, what year was it when Christianity converred to Tammuz and lawlessnes?
You push your lawlessness and paganism to be like the first Christianity, but the first Christianity warned of this same lawlessness over and over.
What year was it when Christianity broke off from Judaism?
You tell me, you think Jesus came teaching lawlesness and paganism?
Paul had no problem with Jews retaining their customs but was adamantly against Gentiles adopting Jewish customs. This is clear in his letter to the Galatians. Because of your Jew fetish you fail to recognize this. And that's as far as I'm going with this conversation.
Again, you are making an assumption that John wrote about the downfall of Rome. But the Tribulation of which Revelation speaks is not about Rome's downfall.
Revelation 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Revelation 22
6 The angel said to me,“These words are trustworthy and true.The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”
7 “Look, I am coming soon!Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.”
8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things.And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”
10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
Last edited by NatesDude; 11-03-2021 at 05:22 PM..
Revelation 1
King James Version
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
And yet, once again, Revelation speaks of things which simply have not as yet happened in history.
I'm curious. Are you even a believer in Christ Jesus or are you someone trying to discredit Christianity and the Bible?
And yet, once again, Revelation speaks of things which simply have not as yet happened in history.
I'm curious. Are you even a believer in Christ Jesus or are you someone trying to discredit Christianity and the Bible?
So when the Bible repeatedly says soon and shortly, it doesn't really mean soon and shortly ? More specifically, when the writer point blank says to "not seal up the words of this prophecy", he doesn't really mean to not make it a future prophecy ? He just says these things, but thats not really what he means ?
I am not trying to discredit anything. I think the writer wrote a letter of comfort to the Christians under Roman persecution. He specifically instructs that the letter go out to the churches of the day for them to be read in the churches, and promises that those who hear the letter read will be blessed.
Exactly how are the Christians of 100AD being thrown to the lions supposed to be blessed by knowing that the writer is predicting something that futurists believe in will happen in 2000, 3000, or 4000 years after they and their children have been killed ?
Christians cant even be honest about the Jewish roots of Jesus, they cant be honest about why they practice paganism.
Christians cant get adopted and grafted to become one people with the chosen nation anymore.
Christians dont even know that they have to be grafted and adopted into Israel, and this is a great tragedy, it was the great mystery, THEE GOSPEL.
I know I said that I wasn't going any further in this discussion, but you really don't know what the hell you're talking about. You have your head stuck in the wrong dispensation and know nothing about the present dispensation of the church. Christians do not have to be grafted into and adopted into Israel. That's not what Paul was saying in his Olive tree analogy in Romans 11:17-24.
Instead, the way that Gentiles and Jews become one is when both receive Christ as Savior. The Holy Spirit places both believing Jews and believing Gentiles into one body. It has nothing at all to do with having to adopt the ways of Judaism.
Now I am done and you will of course continue your rant.
So when the Bible says soon and shortly, it doesn't really mean soon and shortly ?
I am not trying to discredit anything. I think the writer wrote a letter of comfort to the Christians under Roman persecution. He specifically instructs that the letter go out to the churches of the day for them to be read in the churches, and promises that those who hear the letter read will be blessed.
Exactly how are the Christians of 100AD being thrown to the lions supposed to be blessed by knowing that some sort of something that futurists believe in will happen in 2000, 3000, or 4000 years after they and their children have been killed ?
God's timing is not our timing, and Christians of John's time were blessed by understanding Jesus' warnings to the church. In Revelation chapters 2 and 3 Jesus directs John to write to the seven churches of Asia which represent churches throughout the church-age. Further, the end of Revelation writes of the new heavens and new earth to come. And that too is a blessing.
God's timing is not our timing, and Christians of John's time were blessed by understanding Jesus' warnings to the church. In Revelation chapters 2 and 3 Jesus directs John to write to the seven churches of Asia which represent churches throughout the church-age. Further, the end of Revelation writes of the new heavens and new earth to come. And that too is a blessing.
Are you a believer in Jesus Christ? Yes or no.
To say that Gods timing is not mans timing makes no sense. God wrote to men. It is silly to claim that when God told men in a letter about soon and shortly, and gave instructions on what to do based on soon and shortly, that he wasn't using timescales they understood.
Those who put the letter off as a future happening directly disregard the warning at the end of the letter to NOT seal up the words of this prophecy, for the time is NEAR. Which is nothing new, people typically interpret passages of the Bible based on what they want it to say, rather than what it actually says.
To say that Gods timing is not mans timing makes no sense. God wrote to men. It is silly to claim that when God told men in a letter about soon and shortly, and gave instructions on what to do based on soon and shortly, that he wasn't using timescales they understood.
Is there some reason you won't answer my question regarding whether you are a believer in Christ Jesus or not?
Those instructions, assuming you are referring to the letters to the seven churches pertain to the entire church-age and not just to those particular seven churches to whom John wrote.
It's written in the Bible that a thousand years to God is but a day. So yes, God has a different perspective on time.
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