How do we explain this?

[Irkle Berserkle]

I have no doubt the first century Christians thought the End Times were imminent and that many of the NT writings reflect this. They were simply mistaken; there is no need to tap-dance around this.

The events of the decades following Jesus' death were wild and crazy in the extreme for both Jews and Christians. I'm sure I would've thought the end was at hand if I'd been living then. The fact that the end of Christianity wasn't at hand is a "just a bit" miraculous in its own right.

For first century Christians, like 8th and 16th century Christians, the end was "soon" in the theological sense that this is the attitude a Christian should always have: Remain faithful, remain vigilant, because it could all be over at any moment.

The fact is, events that make the end biblically possible and likely are coming together today in a way that has never happened before. This is occurring across a broad spectrum of events, including the decline of traditional Christianity as described in my original post. To me, it looks like the labor pains Jesus described. I think we're in a period where "soon" is "reasonably imminent."

[Irkle Berserkle]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Irkle my brother, you are the one accepting a wrathful vengeful War God as the God revealed and demonstrated on the Cross by Jesus as God incarnate.

There seems to be a misimpression that every traditional Christian is a hardline Bible literalist. It makes a convenient strawman to attack, both for atheists and those who promote alternative Christianities.

I’m anything but a Bible literalist. Many OT accounts are obviously mytho-historical, if not completely mythical, and serve only to express spiritual truths. The Book of Job is pretty obviously a work of literary fiction that serves the same purpose. To the extent the OT materials communicate spiritual truths, I accept them as inspired. They communicate what God wanted to communicate.

Every nation sees “the hand of god” in its great war victories. It’s entirely plausible to me that many of the OT accounts are simply the Israelites’ projection of the hand of Yahweh into their victories. On the other hand, the survival and prominence of the Jews throughout history is quite striking and mysterious, and a covenant relationship between God and Israel is fundamental to Christianity.

There is a vast difference between accepting the broad spiritual truths and biblical themes and being a wooden Bible literalist. By the same token, there is a vast difference between accepting the broad spiritual truths and biblical themes and completely reinventing Jesus and Christianity to suit ourselves.

If I were inclined to reject the broad spiritual truths and biblical themes, I’d simply gravitate to one of the New Age theologies – which is what virtually all the alternative Christianities are anyway. Here we have Ascended Master Jesus, our unthreatening, non-judgmental brother and teacher: https://www.heartscenter.org/Teachin...1/Default.aspx. If he isn’t your cup of tea, there are innumerable other New Age versions.

The broad spiritual truths and themes of traditional Christianity include God’s holiness and justice, mankind’s abuse of its free will, and eternal consequences for those who don’t repent of their sins and turn to Christ. Without these, Christianity is eviscerated into New Age fluff. These don’t hinge on an anthropomorphic “wrathful, warlike God” and there is nothing primitive or barbaric about them. God’s wrath at unrepented sin flows from his perfect holiness and justice and isn’t analogous to human anger.

There is obviously continuity between the God of Judaism and the God of Christianity. Jesus was a Jew who made clear he was revealing the God of Judaism. If he had intended to correct a false understanding of God, he would’ve clearly said so – but in fact he said quite the opposite. There is no disconnect between the parts of Jesus’ message that the alternative Christianities emphasize (and often mischaracterize) and the other, less pleasant half.

It is inconceivable that the entire spectrum of NT authors and their apostolic and other eyewitness sources conspired to preserve the God of traditional Judaism, suffering persecution and in some cases hideous death in the process, despite the fact that Jesus had taught something entirely different, non-challenging and far more appealing in worldly terms. There is no level on which this even makes sense.

[G.Duval]

Main line of OT and NT is evolution of human consciousness that culminated at reaching levels acceptable to God - Christ consciousness. That a Gnostic type myth - it is mix of true stories and inventions to prove points, hard to know what is what but it works.

[Hannibal Flavius]

Originally Posted by NatesDude

I have never really figured out if you are a Poe, if you are just messing with people for fun, or if somehow you really believe the stuff you post. If you are just messing with folks here for fun, it is really out of line to launch personal attacks about a posters character as part of the fun.

If you are serious in what you write, you are the one with some serious issues my friend.

Go figure, all I care about is learning about Jesus, unfortunately, its taboo to learn or teach about Messiah in Christianity so that when I speak of Messiah, Christians havent a clue about what I am talking about because its about Messiah.



Hosea
Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.



The two appointed rains teach of Messiah.


Zechariah 14 is the coming of rhe Lord with his saints at the feast of Tabernacles where the rain circumcises those of Judah on Shemini Atzeret as they are turned into golden vessels instead of clay.


Jesus was born on the first day of Tabernacles as his circumcision was appointed for the great eighth day that literally teaches circumcision.



Zechariah 14

The coming of the Lord in his rain


The Destroyers of Jerusalem Destroyed

1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. ( The first night of Tabernacles, it turns into day from the lights of the menorah that light up every courtyard in Jerusalem like daytime.)

8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.


CHRISTIANS BE WARNED

And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

All Nations will Worship the King

16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.







What has happened?

The Messiah comes with his saints in the feast of Tabernacles FIGHTING THOSE WHO FIGHT AGAINST JERUSALEM WITH ITS FEASTS.



Christians are on the front lines fighting against Jerusalem every day, and although they are warned with their tongues and eyes melting in their heads before they hit the ground, they still fight against the feasts of the Lord.


Zechariah 14 is in fact showing great mercy for those left alive at the coming of the Lord.


All of Judah have.been turned immortal on a world stage and the whole world witnesses it, and then what happens?


The whole world is then offered the same circumcising rain that turned all of Judah into immortals if they just stop fighting against Messiah and his feasts, and they too can obtain the rain.


Its not going to be over night because they will have to walk the same walk as all the saints followed Jesus in.



When the rain of Shemini Atzeret falls, only then will modern Christians convert to the religion of Messiah, the ones left alive that is, they will all keep the feast of Tabernacles.





You tell me, why is learning the ways of Messiah taboo to Christians?

Why are Christians the biggest enemies of Messiah and the people who practice the same religion as Jesus practiced?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius

Go figure, all I care about is learning about Jesus, unfortunately, its taboo to learn or teach about Messiah in Christianity so that when I speak of Messiah, Christians havent a clue about what I am talking about because its about Messiah.

Sadly, you are trapped by the mistaken beliefs of our ancestors, Hanni. There never was going to be a worldly King like David to save the Israelites from the Romans or anyone else. That is the Moshiach they are still waiting for because they rejected the spiritual King from their issue, Jesus the Christ.

Sadder yet, the Christians muddled the worldly and carnal expectations of the Israelites with the spiritual and adopted the carnal interpretations of what Jesus accomplished instead of the spiritual. That travesty of primitive human vanity and hubris has spawned a myriad of evil misunderstandings for millennia!!

It is no surprise to me that it still exists today given the primitive and barbaric context within which God is perceived despite the clear demonstration of God's True Nature by Jesus on the Cross. Until people abandon the concept of a wrathful and vengeful War God, I fear the misunderstandings will continue.

[Hannibal Flavius]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Sadly, you are trapped by the mistaken beliefs of our ancestors, Hanni. There never was going to be a worldly King like David to save the Israelites from the Romans or anyone else. That is the Moshiach they are still waiting for because they rejected the spiritual King from their issue, Jesus the Christ.

Sadder yet, the Christians muddled the worldly and carnal expectations of the Israelites with the spiritual and adopted the carnal interpretations of what Jesus accomplished instead of the spiritual. That travesty of primitive human vanity and hubris has spawned a myriad of evil misunderstandings for millennia!!

It is no surprise to me that it still exists today given the primitive and barbaric context within which God is perceived despite the clear demonstration of God's True Nature by Jesus on the Cross. Until people abandon the concept of a wrathful and vengeful War God, I fear the misunderstandings will continue.

That's all you have when it comes to the ways of Messiah, heck, who needs Jews or Muslims to debate against Jesus when they have you?

We arent talking about your ancestors but you sure like to lie about it every time you get a chance.

Thanks for proving my point, when it comes ro anti Christs, Anti Semites and just all around racists, you take the cake pretending the Jews are your ancestors, but that somehow you have replaced them with your tripe about how God's ways and the ways of Jesus are primitive, evil, barbaric, and yet somehow you think you represent Messiah with your evil apoligies how God is so barbaric and primitive with all your supposed new conscience that has no integrity to admit the truth of your own reality, and that truth is simple.


You are a lawless anti Christ who stands against everything called of God or worshipped of God because you converted to the worship system of Baal that teaches of the resurrection of his son," Tammuz."


All your silly generalizations SO FREAKING BIZZARE that you think you have the power of a holy spirit that was given to people in the religion of Jesus being a Jewish feast you literally teach against, being a Jewish feast of Judaism, you may as well be a Hindu to falsly claim the same bizzare claim like you are entitled to a gift of Judaism while you badmouth God, his ways, his son, and the missions of Christ. It is beyond shamefull.


You are a walking, talking contradiction, the worst of enemies to those who love the God of Israel and his son.



Your ancestors?


So freaking insulting that it is sickening.


Yea, so just continue your bizzare anti Semitism where you bad mouth the God of Israel and all his prophets while claiming to be a descendant of the saints you spit upon, as if they were your people.

Turns my stomach.


I am starting to wonder if there is even one honest Christian in the world