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I don't think we have an example of that in Scripture, so I don't know if He did. But I have no doubt that He could be in multiple places at one time if He wanted to. This is called bilocation, and we have stories of Saints bilocating even while they were alive on earth.
To do so would violate the incarnation.
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We wouldn't say that he gave them a *piece* of His Body. His Body is not divided. Every consecrated Host contains the fullness of Christ; His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.
Not a single verse in Scripture says that. And to suggest that almost seems to suggest that the Eucharist is a 4th member of the Trinity.
The five year old me did not enjoy taking the body of Christ, getting Jesus stuck on my upper palate, having to peel Jesus off my palate, and swallow him.
I do not eat, or drink Jesus anymore. I simply eat and drink, with a true appreciation of what it takes to create everything I consume.
Jesus was a man of his time. A lot of work went into making bread, wine and beer. It must have been a labor of love. Something Jesus understood.
Turning a shaft of wheat into bread is a laborious process in the time of Jesus. You don't get bread unless you transform the wheat. Jesus understood symbolism. Some believe like five year old me.
Why retain the "glorified corporeal body" euphemism that our ancestors needed because of their terror of Spirits? Jesus has a spiritual body because He, like His Father, is a Spirit. We also will become Spirit upon our death and will have spiritual bodies.
Our terminology comes from Aristotelian metaphysics. The definitions of these words are very precise.
"A substance is the underlying reality that accounts for a thing existing by itself and not in another thing."
It has nothing to do with the chemical composition or appearance, but is basically the *essence* of the thing. The "substance" is what distinguishes a consecrated host from an unconsecrated host, even though our senses perceive them identically even at the microscopic level.
In fairness, no human terminology could ever do God justice as we cannot truly conceive of Him in His fullness at all. But we do our best
On the bolded, we agree, and I suspect most people here do. Human language is insufficient.
The five year old me did not enjoy taking the body of Christ, getting Jesus stuck on my upper palate, having to peel Jesus off my palate, and swallow him.
I do not eat, or drink Jesus anymore. I simply eat and drink, with a true appreciation of what it takes to create everything I consume.
Jesus was a man of his time. A lot of work went into making bread, wine and beer. It must have been a labor of love. Something Jesus understood.
Turning a shaft of wheat into bread is a laborious process in the time of Jesus. You don't get bread unless you transform the wheat. Jesus understood symbolism. Some believe like five year old me.
Ah, yes, and hence the Eucharistic words "...we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made..."
My last church offered gluten-free wafers and a second chalice with grape juice in lieu of wine for those who could not take alcohol. My daughter, a cradle Episcopalian who no longer considers herself Christian at all, still took communion when she attended with me on Christmas Eve a few years ago. She got to the priest and said "I need the Gluten-Free Body of Christ and the alcohol-free Blood".
When she was around four, the priest was up front doing the Eucharist and talking about the bread and wine, and she said, "Mommy, what is he talking about?" So I said, trying to convey this thought to a child, "Well, Jesus said we should do this, thinking of the bread as his body and the wine as his blood..." and she said, "That's DISGUSTING!". This old lady was on her knees in the pew ahead of us and I could see her shoulders shaking with laughter overhearing this.
Our body returns to the earth and our spirit to God. “Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecc. 12:7).
Man was made from the dust of the earth (Gen. 2:7). When he dies his body will return to the dust of the earth but the spirit of man made in the image of God (Gen. 1:26-27; Heb. 12:9) will return to God.
John is talking about things Jesus DID, not things He said. If Jesus had wanted a priesthood separate from all other Christians, He’d have said so. But He did not even hint at it. Face it. That would be a pretty big deal. But He said not a word. Building a religion based on words Jesus never said is dangerous. Since He was given all authority on earth and in heaven, one has to wonder where the RCC comes by their authority to set up a priesthood separate and apart from all other Christians. Talk about arrogant!
You believe that literally every word Jesus ever spoke is recorded in Scripture?
The only instructions Jesus gave concerning the supper was to eat, drink and do this in remembrance of me.
And what was it he told them to eat?
Did he say "you will eat bread", or "this is bread; eat it"?
Or did he tell them that what he was giving them to eat was his body?
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He never told them to perform a ritual like Catholic priests do, where they preside over transubstantiation. T
He told the apostles "do this." What is "this"? What was it he had just done? (Hint: see Luke 22:19.)
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Never did Jesus establish a priesthood separate and apart from all other Christians and authorize them to perform such a ritual. It, like the Roman Catholic priesthood, is from men, not God.
So you think that everyone in the Church performs the same function? God says otherwise, and has made distinctions of roles: Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 1 Cor 12:27-30
The role of the priest is one of these that has been established for the church. I have pointed out before, and you have not denied (although you did get all bent our of shape about it), that your education to date is such that you do not have the ability to read Greek. The word "priest" is nothing other than the way the Greek word πρεσβύτερος/presbuteros has been transmitted down through time into the English language. This word may also be rendered as "presbyter" (which is similar to the sound of the Greek word), and it may also be rendered as "elder" (which is the literal meaning of the Greek word, although obviously the people so labelled are not the oldest men in the church.) You will find the role of these men described clearly in scripture:
Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophetic utterance when the council of elders (πρεσβυτερίου/presbuteriou) laid their hands upon you. (1 Tim 4:14)
Let the elders (πρεσβύτεροι/presbuteroi) who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. (1 Tim 5:17)
This is why I left you in Crete, that you might amend what was defective, and appoint elders (πρεσβυτέρους/presbuterous) in every town as I directed you (Tit 1:5)
Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church (πρεσβυτέρους τῆς ἐκκλησία/presbuterous tes ekklesia), and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. (Jas 5:14-15)
So I exhort the elders (Πρεσβυτέρους/presbuterous) among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Tend the flock of God that is your charge, not by constraint but willingly, not for shameful gain but eagerly, not as domineering over those in your charge but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd is manifested you will obtain the unfading crown of glory. Likewise you that are younger be subject to the elders (1 Peter 5:1-5)
The Bible itself describes the elders/presbyters/priests as being appointed by apostolic authority, and having a role distinct from that of other believers. Who are you to reject the Word of God on this subject -- or indeed, on any other? To quote your own words back at you, "Talk about arrogant!!"
Last edited by GreenWhiteBlue; 11-16-2021 at 10:44 AM..
I don't think we have an example of that in Scripture, so I don't know if He did. But I have no doubt that He could be in multiple places at one time if He wanted to. This is called bilocation, and we have stories of Saints bilocating even while they were alive on earth.
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
To do so would violate the incarnation.
How so?
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Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
We wouldn't say that he gave them a *piece* of His Body. His Body is not divided. Every consecrated Host contains the fullness of Christ; His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Not a single verse in Scripture says that. And to suggest that almost seems to suggest that the Eucharist is a 4th member of the Trinity.
We make deductions based on what we know about the nature of God and Jesus.
The Eucharist cannot be a "4th member of the Trinity" as it is indistinct from the 2nd Person of the Trinity.
"Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it." (Mark 10:15)
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