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I HAVE explained it, your inability or unwillingness to accept it or understand it notwithstanding. And you know damn well that the argument here goes far beyond 'some guy on a chat forum.' It's an issue, among other issues, which the church has argued about for a very long time.
Read the damn article I posted. The misunderstanding about Ignatius is yours. Now, if you need to get the last word in, do so. But I have explained it.
Your explanation on Ignatius is silly beyond belief . He specifically says
“ they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ,”
That’s about as plain as it gets. He is special king about the Eucharist . To make him say anything else borders on total dishonesty regarding his words .
Here is your take on the whole passage in brief :
The disciples grumbled that Jesus claim about it his flesh was too hard. So Jesus told them he just meant it symbolically. So the disciples got mad that Jesus only meant it symbolically and left
Here is what you want us to believe happened with the disciples, put into modern day .
Bob : “ I need a raise . I have worked here for ten years, and others make more than me for doing the same job”.
Boss: “You’re right Bob, you deserve a raise . Starting tomorrow you make $2 more an hour . “
Bob: “ What! I get a raise ? That’s bull manure . I’m tired of this place . I quit!”
Michael Way logic at work
Last edited by NatesDude; 11-16-2021 at 04:31 PM..
The disciples grumbled that Jesus claim about it his flesh was too hard. So Jesus told them he just meant it symbolically. So the disciples got mad that Jesus only meant it symbolically and left
Here is what you want us to believe happened with the disciples, put into modern day .
Bob : “ I need a raise . I have worked here for ten years, and others make more than me for doing the same job”.
Boss: “You’re right Bob, you deserve a raise . Starting tomorrow you make $2 more an hour . “
Bob: “ What! I get a raise ? That’s bull manure . I’m tired of this place . I quit!”
Michael Way logic at work
When I said you can get the last word in I didn't expect you to lie about what I said, or about my take on it. Or maybe you're too damn dense to comprehend. To blazes with you then.
When I said you can get the last word in I didn't expect you to lie about what I said, or about my take on it. Or maybe you're too damn dense to comprehend. To hell with you then.
Show me where I lied . I simply put it in brief to expose the silliness of your position . So please, highlight specifically what is said that doesn’t convey the meaning you apply to it .
BTW, I went back and edited my post you quoted to address your erroneous claim about Ignatius . Sorry, you are wrong there also
You believe that literally every word Jesus ever spoke is recorded in Scripture?
Or that the way it is recorded is the way it was said?
My old priest once pointed out that an hour after we leave, we're not going to be able to say word for word what he said today and will only remember about half of it anyway, even if we were listened.
Nobody was recording Jesus word for word. Each author wrote down what they remembered he'd said or what they were told another person remembered he said and how each author interpreted it.
No, that Jesus meant what he said symbolically is not nonsensical, and it was the disciples who said that it was a hard saying. Jesus had previously told the disciples that they sought him only because they had eaten the loaves of bread and were filled (John 6:26). Then Jesus told them to work not for the food which perishes but for the food which endures to eternal life. When the crowd asked him what they had to do to do the works of God, Jesus told them that the work (singular) of God was to believe in Him. Then Jesus referred to the manna in the wilderness which was bread out of heaven to eat. From there Jesus said that he was the true bread out of heaven. It is he who is the source of life.
Jesus saying that his flesh is true food and his blood true drink and that whoever eats his flesh and drinks his blood abides in him (John 6:53-56) is a metaphor. It is symbolism in which Jesus is saying that he is the source of life and that you must believe in him to have life.
Eating the living bread is a figure of speech meaning to believe on him. Those who come to Jesus will not hunger and those who believe on him will never thirst (John 6:35).
I decided to provide these articles which back up what I said above.
How anyone can actually believe that Jesus was speaking literally about eating his flesh and drinking his blood just goes to show how . . .naive people can be.
How anyone can actually believe that Jesus was speaking literally about eating his flesh and drinking his blood just goes to show how . . .naive people can be.
Yeah, those silly Apostles. Taking Jesus literally and teaching their own followers that he meant it literally.
Silly gooses! I mean , its not like they actually spent years studying with Jesus in person and heard him actually say that.
Or that the way it is recorded is the way it was said?
My old priest once pointed out that an hour after we leave, we're not going to be able to say word for word what he said today and will only remember about half of it anyway, even if we were listened.
Nobody was recording Jesus word for word. Each author wrote down what they remembered he'd said or what they were told another person remembered he said and how each author interpreted it.
How anyone could possibly know about this process and still conclude that what eventually has been recorded years later is the unadulterated, inerrant, and infallible word of God just boggles the mind!
Or that the way it is recorded is the way it was said?
My old priest once pointed out that an hour after we leave, we're not going to be able to say word for word what he said today and will only remember about half of it anyway, even if we were listened.
Nobody was recording Jesus word for word. Each author wrote down what they remembered he'd said or what they were told another person remembered he said and how each author interpreted it.
While we don't in many or most cases have the exact words of Jesus, and this can be seen by the paraphrasing of parallel passages in the synoptics, we do have the voice of Jesus.
While we don't in many or most cases have the exact words of Jesus, and this can be seen by the paraphrasing of parallel passages in the synoptics, we do have the voice of Jesus.
I do agree with this. The voice of Jesus is very consistent throughout the Gospels.
Needless to say, I've enjoyed your contributions in this thread as to me you're an unbiased arbiter between the Protestant and Catholic viewpoints without having a dog in the fight, so to speak.
I know this is off-topic and I certainly understand if you don't care to get into it here; but what caused you to leave Christianity? Feel free to DM me if you want to.
I find Protestants hilarious. They are full of the sort of things you read here. I mean, the disciples complaining that Christs words on the Eucharist were to hard to accept, but then they leave once he properly explains that he really only meant it symbolically, not literally, so now they are mad that he doesnt mean it literally and leave? What sort of logic is that? Or somewhere else an evangelical , who has previously accepted all sorts of things as miracles from God, is arguing with a Catholic about certain sorts of Catholic miracles not being able to happen? God can do the Protestant approved miracles, but not the Catholic approved ones?
Ignatius words condemning those that “ do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ,” don't really really REALLY mean that the Eucharist is the flesh of Christ?
They just get laughable. When I left the Baptists and started attending an EO church, I read where the EO dismissed Protestantism as an irrelevant religion. The comment was made in reference to some Protestants trying to suggest an affinity between Protestants and the EO, based on a mutual split with the RCC. The EO made it clear they didnt take Protestantism to be a serious faith. Fresh from being a Baptist it sort of ticked me off. Decades later I understand the perception much better.
I dont agree with a lot of the Ancient Faiths of the RCC, EO, and the OO, but I respect them. Especially the EO and OO. Not to knock Catholicism too much, but I do feel they went wrong when they separated from the other churches and tried to determine things on their own. It led to some things that would have been prevented had they stayed with the other churches. But I respect the Ancient faiths . Protestantism, well, there is a reason there are 10,000 plus different sects teaching things like the Prosperity gospel, dispensationalism, and such. Very hard to take them seriously. Although I do respect the Quakers. If I were to attend a Christian church, it would be a Quaker one, the unprogrammed kind.
I dont mind answering about my journey. I have written it out before. I will see if I can find it and copy and paste it rather than try to write it all out again.
Last edited by NatesDude; 11-16-2021 at 06:50 PM..
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How anyone could possibly know about this process and still conclude that what eventually has been recorded years later is the unadulterated, inerrant, and infallible word of God just boggles the mind!
