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And that make about as much sense as when Leighton Flowers said some people are simply choice meats.
So you say. But it is a fact that biblically speaking, God' choice, before either Esau or Jacob were born was to use Jacob rather than Esau as the one through whom Israel, and ultimately, Jesus, would come into the world. The passage has nothing at all to do with God literally hating Esau and loving Jacob. Neither had even been born yet.
So you say. But it is a fact that biblically speaking, God' choice, before either Esau or Jacob were born was to use Jacob rather than Esau as the one through whom Israel, and ultimately, Jesus, would come into the world. The passage has nothing at all to do with God literally hating Esau and loving Jacob. Neither had even been born yet.
Yes. His choice was to use and love Jacob and his descendants. That's a fact seen throughout Scripture. Even when Jacob was doing Jacob things, sinning and living like scoundrel, God chose to love him.
The Bible tells us also that we are all born as children of wrath, and no one seeks God. We have to reconcile those facts, Mike. We just can't get around it. God chose Jacob, not Esau. And the apostle Paul even answers the objection in Romans 9, stating that no, God is not unjust, but will do what he wants with his creation.
We can either believe God is God and will do what he wants, or we can believe he isn't.
Why do you believe sinners are his children? Jesus told the Pharisees that their Father was the devil.
I believe that all of humanity are God's children. He is the Father of the spirits of all mankind.I believe Jesus was speaking figuratively, as the devil doesn't have the capability of fathering spirits.
I believe that all of humanity are God's children. He is the Father of the spirits of all mankind.I believe Jesus was speaking figuratively, as the devil doesn't have the capability of fathering spirits.
That's kind of a non-sequitur. No one actually believes Jesus was speaking of Satan fathering a spirit. On the other hand, he said that Satan is their Father, and we read in other passages that men are sinners prior to Jesus, and must be born again.
That's kind of a non-sequitur. No one actually believes Jesus was speaking of Satan fathering a spirit. On the other hand, he said that Satan is their Father, and we read in other passages that men are sinners prior to Jesus, and must be born again.
Do you simply disregard that?
What exactly do you believe Satan fathered? He obviously didn't father their mortal bodies; their parents did. Fathers have to father something; otherwise they would not be fathers. Who do you believe was "the father of spirits"? The Bible says it was God.
What exactly do you believe Satan fathered? He obviously didn't father their mortal bodies; their parents did. Fathers have to father something; otherwise they would not be fathers.
Sin. He's the one who tempted Adam. And Adam became his child when he sinned. His descendants inherit that sin nature.
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Who do you believe was "the father of spirits"? The Bible says it was God.
You mean Hebrews 12:9? You realize that the verse in question was writing to believers, right?
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I agree that we must be born again.
Why? If we are already children of God, what does that accomplish?
John 1:12-13 says it is when we become children of God. But if you think we are already children of God, why is it necessary?
Why do you believe sinners are his children? Jesus told the Pharisees that their Father was the devil.
Because He was the Father of their spirits. He was the one who gave them life. Besides, aren't we all sinners? Is no one a child of God, in your opinion?
The devil is the "father of sin"? I guess that works as a metaphor, but I don't believe we the devil is our father, and all of us have sinned.
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He's the one who tempted Adam. And Adam became his child when he sinned. His descendants inherit that sin nature.
I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on that, BF.
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You mean Hebrews 12:9? You realize that the verse in question was writing to believers, right?
We all owe our lives, our very being, to God -- even the worst among us.
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Why? If we are already children of God, what does that accomplish?
John 1:12-13 says it is when we become children of God. But if you think we are already children of God, why is it necessary?
We're all His children, but all have sinned and fall short of His glory. We need to become new creatures in Christ. That's what I believe.
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