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Weird. Scripture actually never shows that. Nowhere in Scripture do we see any unbeliever being baptized. But it's interesting that you go back to a verse from Ezekiel to supposedly demonstrate Christian baptism as regenerative.
Of course I did not begin with a presupposition that baptismal regeneration is sound doctrine.
I actually started with the presupposition that it was false doctrine.
But when I came to understand the biblical teaching on the matter, I changed my mind.
Of course I did not begin with a presupposition that baptismal regeneration is sound doctrine.
I actually started with the presupposition that it was false doctrine.
But when I came to understand the biblical teaching on the matter, I changed my mind.
2 forum members I would be tempted to put my house on that you both would agree on most things, but apparently not. One a professing Calvinist the other in denial that he is.
Calvinists believe that regeneration comes before faith. I do not.
I hold to what it says in Romans 5:1-2 on the issue.
Practically, but not effectively. Or is it effectively but not practically?
I've heard the illustration that it's only prior to in the way that the light doesn't come on until I hit the light switch. We don't believe without God regenerating.
But if you believe baptism does that, then you are simply transferring the power from the Spirit doing the washing to physical water. Same thing. No one believes until they're regenerated.
Practically, but not effectively. Or is it effectively but not practically?
I've heard the illustration that it's only prior to in the way that the light doesn't come on until I hit the light switch. We don't believe without God regenerating.
But if you believe baptism does that, then you are simply transferring the power from the Spirit doing the washing to physical water. Same thing. No one believes until they're regenerated.
We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:2); and are we not regenerated by the grace of God (Titus 3:4-7)?
Therefore, since grace comes before regeneration, but faith comes before grace, it follows that faith comes before regeneration.
If Calvinism is true, and I had to choose an example- Hophni and Phinehas seem to be it.
1 Samuel 2;17 17 This sin of the young men was very great in the Lord’s sight, for they[a] were treating the Lord’s offering with contempt.
1 SAMUEL: 22 Now, Eli was very old, and he had heard everything that his sons were doing to all Israel and that they were sleeping with the women who served at the gate of the tent of meeting. 23 So he asked them, “Why are you doing such things? I hear about your wicked ways from all these people. 24 Sons, the report that I hear the people of the Lord spreading isn’t good! 25 If one person sins against another, God will take care of him. However, when a person sins against the Lord, who will pray for him?” But they wouldn’t listen to their father’s warning—the Lord wanted to kill them.
I've studied but cannot find what curse this is to be. All I see is God choosing Jacob over Eli regarding a covenant of sorts as Jacobs 12 children are chosen as the 12 Tribes of Israel. I don't know what happened to Eli.
Regarding Esau, he appeared to repent in the end and forgive his brother Jacob. I hardly see that as some kind of predestination to hell (which is a doctrine of demons imho)
2 forum members I would be tempted to put my house on that you both would agree on most things, but apparently not. One a professing Calvinist the other in denial that he is.
Interesting isn’t it? And I put it down to one is a Pentecostal and the other a Baptist so they have different teachers and perspectives by design, it has to to with the natural, earthly, religious diversity (that was foretold from the beginning ‘Genesis’)
In Jude 1:3-4, it says that there are certain false teachers who are "foreordained to this condemnation".
Sounds like the doctrine is biblical to me.
You will never learn you will year ? You cannot read a word like condemnation, perish, judgement, wrath and the like without thinking of the hell you fear.
You will never learn you will year ? You cannot read a word like condemnation, perish, judgement, wrath and the like without thinking of the hell you fear.
I'm not afraid of hell....I know that I'm not going there.
But I do fear that some of the people that I know and love and care about (including yourself) may be going there...
So I work to bring them into a living and saving faith in Jesus and what He did for them on the Cross.
I do believe that the Lord will hear my prayers concerning them (1 John 5:14-15, 2 Peter 3:9).
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