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Yes. His choice was to use and love Jacob and his descendants. That's a fact seen throughout Scripture. Even when Jacob was doing Jacob things, sinning and living like scoundrel, God chose to love him.
The Bible tells us also that we are all born as children of wrath, and no one seeks God. We have to reconcile those facts, Mike. We just can't get around it. God chose Jacob, not Esau. And the apostle Paul even answers the objection in Romans 9, stating that no, God is not unjust, but will do what he wants with his creation.
We can either believe God is God and will do what he wants, or we can believe he isn't.
God chose Jacob rather than Esau to bring Israel into the world, through whom Jesus would come into the world. God did not choose Jacob for eternal salvation while choosing to leave Esau under condemnation without regard for their volition as Calvinism teaches.
When in Malachi 1:2-5 it says that God loved Jacob but hated Esau it does not refer to Jacob and Esau personally, but to the nations that sprang from them - Israel and Edom.
God chose Jacob rather than Esau to bring Israel into the world, through whom Jesus would come into the world. God did not choose Jacob for eternal salvation while choosing to leave Esau under condemnation without regard for their volition as Calvinism teaches.
Romans 9 actually says differently.
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When in Malachi 1:2-5 it says that God loved Jacob but hated Esau it does not refer to Jacob and Esau personally, but to the nations that sprang from them - Israel and Edom.
So you believe Esau is in Heaven now? Much less all of his descendants?
So you believe Esau is in Heaven now? Much less all of his descendants?
I said nothing about the eternal fate of Esau. I said only that in Malachi 1:2-5 it is the nations of Israel and Edom that are the referents of God's love and hate which has to do with God's choice that it would be Israel through whom the Messiah would come. Whether or not Esau came to be saved is a separate issue from what Malachi 1:2-5 is talking about.
But Esau may very well have come to believe in the coming Messiah for eternal life in which case he was saved. Nothing in the OT suggests that he wasn't. Carnal, yes. Unregenerate, no. As for Esau's descendants, that was a matter of individual choice on the part of each of his descendants.
I agree with the view expressed in the article below which also addresses Romans 9.
Sure it does. He wrote the first 8 chapters regarding salvation in Jesus. And in chapter 9 he plainly says that he will choose those whom he chooses. The sovereign God can do what he wants with his creation.
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I said nothing about the eternal fate of Esau. I said only that in Malachi 1:2-5 it is the nations of Israel and Edom that are the referents of God's love and hate which has to do with God's choice that it would be Israel through whom the Messiah would come. Whether or not Esau came to be saved is a separate issue from what Malachi 1:2-5 is talking about.
But Esau may very well have come to believe in the coming Messiah for eternal life in which case he was saved. Nothing in the OT suggests that he wasn't. Carnal, yes. Unregenerate, no. As for Esau's descendants, that was a matter of individual choice on the part of each of his descendants.
I agree with the view expressed in the article below which also addresses Romans 9.
Sure it does. He wrote the first 8 chapters regarding salvation in Jesus. And in chapter 9 he plainly says that he will choose those whom he chooses. The sovereign God can do what he wants with his creation.
Nowhere in Scripture do we hear that God remove the sin blindness of Esau. So it's only logical to conclude otherwise.
Paul is not saying in Romans 9, or anywhere else that God chooses who he wants to save and who to leave in condemnation. He wants to save all. What Paul is addressing in Romans 9 is his personal concern for Israel which despite having been chosen by God for the purpose of being the source of blessing for the world because it was through Israel that Christ came into the world; despite that, the nation failed to recognize the Messiah when he came. And so, again, when Paul quotes Malachi 1:2-5 it is with regard to God's choice of Israel rather than Edom through whom the Messiah would come into the world and yet, Israel rejected the Messiah.
No, it isn't logical to conclude that Esau wasn't saved. The Bible doesn't have to say anything about Esau being saved for it to be a possibility that he was saved. When after many years, Esau and Jacob again saw each other, Esau was very happy to see him, indicating that he had changed. And so Esau may very well have come to believe in the coming Messiah.
Paul is not saying in Romans 9, or anywhere else that God chooses who he wants to save and who to leave in condemnation.
So you just cut the last few verses of chapter 8 and pretty much all of 9 out of your Bible?
verse 16 specifically says "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
I mean, I honestly don't know how you can hold on to the fairy tale of free will when you read that.
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He wants to save all. What Paul is addressing in Romans 9 is his personal concern for Israel which despite having been chosen by God for the purpose of being the source of blessing for the world because it was through Israel that Christ came into the world; despite that, the nation failed to recognize the Messiah when he came. And so, again, when Paul quotes Malachi 1:2-5 it is with regard to God's choice of Israel rather than Edom through whom the Messiah would come into the world and yet, Israel rejected the Messiah.
So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Yes. God will mercy those he wants. That's how the Greek phrases it. God will mercy those whom he chooses.
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No, it isn't logical to conclude that Esau wasn't saved. The Bible doesn't have to say anything about Esau being saved for it to be a possibility that he was saved. When after many years, Esau and Jacob again saw each other, Esau was very happy to see him, indicating that he had changed. And so Esau may very well have come to believe in the coming Messiah.
Other than that he was hated by God.
But, of course, so are all sinners. And God certainly does choose some sinners to save.
So you just cut the last few verses of chapter 8 and pretty much all of 9 out of your Bible?
verse 16 specifically says "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
I mean, I honestly don't know how you can hold on to the fairy tale of free will when you read that.
Yes. God will mercy those he wants. That's how the Greek phrases it. God will mercy those whom he chooses.
Other than that he was hated by God.
But, of course, so are all sinners. And God certainly does choose some sinners to save.
The last few verses of Romans chapter 8 speak of God's love and asks who and what can separate us from the love of God. And I explained chapter 9 to you already. You choose not to even try to understand what Paul is saying. And God does not hate sinners. 'For God so loved the world' does not equal God hates sinners. But suit yourself. I want nothing to do with your Calvinistic theology.
The last few verses of Romans chapter 8 speak of God's love and asks who and what can separate us from the love of God. And I explained chapter 9 to you already. You choose not to even try to understand what Paul is saying. And God does not hate sinners. 'For God so loved the world' does not equal God hates sinners. But suit yourself. I want nothing to do with your Calvinistic theology.
Yes. Nothing can separate us from the love of God. And those of us that know that are those that God foreknows. It's crazy to think that God chose the entire nation of Israel, all the prophets, kings, etc....but YOU...well, YOU chose him.
Because...well...YOU......
What if, instead, you read Scripture starting with God, instead of man?
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