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Old 05-31-2022, 12:00 PM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,279,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Jesus says it must be done that way-Luke 6:42-- otherwise one cannot see clear enough to remove the speck from their brothers eye.
To me it is blatantly obvious that Jesus is saying

1 - You have no right to judge your brother while you have a beam in your eye.

2 - If anyone should be doing the judging out of the hypocrite with a beam in his eye and the brother with a speck of dust, it has got to be the brother with the speck of dust in his eye. He not only can see better, which means he is more likely of the 2 to judge righteously.

Tell me this, can the brother with the speck of dust who can see the beam in his brothers eye, judge him because of it ? Also, tell me why Jesus is addressing the brother with the beam in his and not the brother with the speck of dust?

It is quite obvious that Jesus is exposing the hypocrisy of judging a brother period unless it is with righteous judgement, and that kind of judgement is never by appearance.
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Old 05-31-2022, 12:27 PM
 
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Jesus is obviously saying that if you have a beam in your eye, that that should be more obvious to you than if you have a speck in your eye. If you have a speck in your eye then you cannot see clearly to take a speck out of your brother's eye while it might be easier to discern a beam even if you are blinded by a speck.

But Jesus is saying that when we are inclined to try to take an obstruction out of our brother's eye, that usually the proportion is that our brother has a speck while we have a beam.

So, we should deal with the obvious beam in our own eye and then, Jesus says, we will be able to see clearly to be able to take the speck out of our brother's eye.

Jesus says to eradicate all sin from your own life before attempting to remove little areas of sin in other people's lives.

Only those who are truly born again are able to rightly judge the speck in their brother's eyes. Because Jesus has dealt with the sin in their life. And they also have access to the only cleanser that can take out specks from the eye of your brother....the blood of Jesus.
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Old 05-31-2022, 12:30 PM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,279,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
Jesus is obviously saying that if you have a beam in your eye, that that should be more obvious to you than if you have a speck in your eye. If you have a speck in your eye then you cannot see clearly to take a speck out of your brother's eye while it might be easier to discern a beam even if you are blinded by a speck.

But Jesus is saying that when we are inclined to try to take an obstruction out of our brother's eye, that usually the proportion is that our brother has a speck while we have a beam.

So, we should deal with the obvious beam in our own eye and then, Jesus says, we will be able to see clearly to be able to take the speck out of our brother's eye.

Jesus says to eradicate all sin from your own life before attempting to remove little areas of sin in other people's lives.

Only those who are truly born again are able to rightly judge the speck in their brother's eyes. Because Jesus has dealt with the sin in their life. And they also have access to the only cleanser that can take out specks from the eye of your brother....the blood of Jesus.
No it is not more obvious, the fact you are judging someone with speck of dust in their eye while you have a beam in your own, proves it is not more obvious. Beam in your eye while judging, means you are blind to the obvious.
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Old 05-31-2022, 12:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
No it is not more obvious, the fact you are judging someone with speck of dust in their eye while you have a beam in your own, proves it is not more obvious. Beam in your eye while judging, means you are blind to the obvious.
A beam is more obvious than a speck any day of the week.

What Jesus is saying is that it is not appropo for, say, a murderer to try to help an alcoholic with his addiction.

A murderer knows that that is what he is; and he also knows that he is a hypocrite if he judges his brother for being an alcoholic.

He might be able to help him with his addiction if he ceased to be a murderer by having the love of the Lord shed abroad in his heart (Romans 5:5).

Then he would not go about seeking to help him by judging him; but rather he might attempt to apply scripture to his situation in an attempt at using the scalpel of the Spirit (Hebrews 4:12) in order to perform spiritual surgery.

But he is not worthy to perform that operation unless or until he has eternal life abiding in him; even the love of God.
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Old 05-31-2022, 12:53 PM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,279,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
A beam is more obvious than a speck any day of the week.

What Jesus is saying is that it is not appropo for, say, a murderer to try to help an alcoholic with his addiction.

A murderer knows that that is what he is; and he also knows that he is a hypocrite if he judges his brother for being an alcoholic.

He might be able to help him with his addiction if he ceased to be a murderer by having the love of the Lord shed abroad in his heart (Romans 5:5).

Then he would not go about seeking to help him by judging him; but rather he might attempt to apply scripture to his situation in an attempt at using the scalpel of the Spirit (Hebrews 4:12) in order to perform spiritual surgery.

But he is not worthy to perform that operation unless or until he has eternal life abiding in him; even the love of God.
Not if you are blinded by it. The guy with a speck of dust in his eye can see far more clearer than the guy with a beam in the eye. Jesus is literally saying you cannot see with a beam in your eye.

Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. Romans 14?:4


Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him >>>>>>> speaks against the law and judges it. And if you judge the law, you are not a practitioner of the law, but a judge of it James 4:11

But who are you to judge your neighbor?
James 4:12
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Old 05-31-2022, 01:02 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,837,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Not if you are blinded by it. The guy with a speck of dust in his eye can see far more clearer than the guy with a beam in the eye. Jesus is literally saying you cannot see with a beam in your eye.

Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. Romans 14?:4


Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him >>>>>>> speaks against the law and judges it. And if you judge the law, you are not a practitioner of the law, but a judge of it James 4:11

But who are you to judge your neighbor?
James 4:12
In the natural...if someone is walking around carrying a beam, he knows about it because of the sheer weight of the object.

If someone has a speck in his eye he knows about it because it is an obstruction to his sight.

People know it if they are sinners.
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Old 05-31-2022, 01:05 PM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,279,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
In the natural...if someone is walking around carrying a beam, he knows about it because of the sheer weight of the object.

If someone has a speck in his eye he knows about it because it is an obstruction to his sight.

People know it if they are sinners.
We are not talking about naturally, we are talking about being spiritually blind, which a person is, when they are judging a brother with for having a speck of dust in their eye.

What are hypocrites known for ? Being BLIND to what they are themselves. That is why Jesus called the brother with the beam in the eye an hypocrite.
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Old 05-31-2022, 01:08 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,837,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
We are not talking about naturally, we are talking about being spiritually blind, which a person is, when they are judging a brother with for having a speck of dust in their eye.

What are hypocrites known for ? Being BLIND to what they are themselves. That is why Jesus called the brother with the beam in the eye an hypocrite.
In any parable, there is always a correlation between what we find in the natural and the spiritual application to it.

You might be surprised at how the Holy Spirit can reveal to a hypocrite that that is what he is.
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Old 05-31-2022, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,138 posts, read 10,434,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
For the most part; however there is a place for judgment within the church in the here and now.

1Co 6:4, If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
1Co 6:5, I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
What in the world are you talking about?

You are quoting things said under an unbrella of Judaism where they had their own laws in order to judge people within the scope of Judaism.

Unfortunately, before you can judge anyone, you first must have a law that everyone is made aware of so that they do not transgress the law.

You have no laws, and what is righteous and good, you deem as unrighteous and evil.

You cant even provide a list of do's and dont to a sinner, how will you judge anyone?
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Old 05-31-2022, 01:29 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,837,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
What in the world are you talking about?

You are quoting things said under an unbrella of Judaism where they had their own laws in order to judge people within the scope of Judaism.

Unfortunately, before you can judge anyone, you first must have a law that everyone is made aware of so that they do not transgress the law.

You have no laws, and what is righteous and good, you deem as unrighteous and evil.

You cant even provide a list of do's and don'ts <fify> to a sinner, how will you judge anyone?
My list of do's and don'ts is found in Galatians 5:16-24.

However, it is true that our obedience as Christians is not based on crossing our t' s and dotting our i's concerning a set of do's and don'ts; but rather it consists of walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit; the specifics of which are given in the passage mentioned.

Quote:
You have no laws, and what is righteous and good, you deem as unrighteous and evil.
That is simply a lie.
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