Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Heb 7:12, For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13, For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14, For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15, And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Gal 5:16, This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17, For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24, And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
The law of the NT consists of vices to be avoided and virtues to be exemplified.
Vices to be avoided:
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Virtues to be exemplified:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Those are just examples.
Not a definitive list suggesting they are different than any other behaviors. They are a "Direction to Face".
Again, you are quoting things written to converts of Judaism where every single Jewish believer became even more zealous to keep the law, you take this out of context, rippiing it from the religion it was talking about.
How is it that you arent in the same religion as Jesus, Paul, the disciples and every Jewish and Israeli believer?
Why did Paul continue walking in the laws of Moses?
If I follow Paul's actual life, I would be zealous in following the laws of Moses like every single Jewish and Israeli believer in Jesus.
You take things written as if they were not written to converts of Judaism as if your modern Christianity could possibly fit in the new Testament.
If you are continously quoting an Israeli believer in Christ who never left Judaism, and never stopped keeping the laws of Moses, why arent you in the same religion?
They were going to kill Paul several times because it had been rumored that Paul was teaching against Moses, and Paul had to prove that he never left Judaism, that he never stopped following the laws of Moses.
Which is it?
Did Paul ever leave Judaism, did Paul ever stop keeping the laws of Moses?
Yes or no?
Answer the question.
Did Paul continue following Judaism and did he continue keeping the laws of Moses in Zeal?
Yes, he did, but everything you present tries to prove otherwise. If Paul continued following Moses and keeping the laws, why do you keep quoting him?
You are quoting a man who practiced Judaism and who was zealous to keep the law, why dont you call him a Judaizer?
And again, you have no law, what you present is not a law, if it was, you sure missunderstand.
Where in your new law are you allowed to keep the holy days, traditions and ritials of Baal?
Paul speaking,
1Co 9:19, For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20, And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21, To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22, To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23, And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Do you not see the exaggeration of the beam and speck of dust in what Jesus is saying? The speck of dust is not even a big deal, stop taking it literal, how could you possibly have what we all know a beam literally is, lodged in your eye?
It really is no different from he that is without sin let him cast the first stone. You would not even have a stone in your hand if you were aware of a beam in your own eye.
It is absolutely absurd to believe Jesus is teaching take the plank out of your own eye to remove the speck of dust in your brothers eye. Notice, he never says a single thing to the brother with a speck of dust in his eye. One is blind to what he is, the other is troubled by what is in his eye. Massive difference.
It is no coincidence that Jesus is using "the eye" to make a point. Why didn't he just say why are you beholding a minor fault with your brother when you have major faults with yourself?
That is exactly what He was saying with the use of a parable.
And, He was also mentioning that if you really want to see other people change, change yourself first and then, having been changed, you will have the moral rectitude to lead others into change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Judge not, that ye may not be judged, 2for in what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged, and in what measure ye measure, it shall be measured to you. 3‘And why dost thou behold the mote that [is] in thy brother’s eye, and the beam that [is] in thine own eye dost not consider? 4or, how wilt thou say to thy brother, Suffer I may cast out the mote from thine eye, and lo, the beam [is] in thine own eye? 5Hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then thou shalt see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
Jesus leaves us in absolutely no doubt that this discourse is not about how to judge a brother....... Judge not that ye may not be judged. Could He have been anymore clearer? So the bottom line is, why would you even want to judge your brother's fault(we all are guilty at times of it) knowing full well that we place ourselves under judgement.
Jesus here makes it clear that if you judge you will also be judged.
And everyone will be judged.
With the same measure ye mete out, it will be meted out to you.
So, it is only safe to deal with your own sins before attempting to change other people with your judgments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
I think he is meaning, correcting your brother because of his fault is not judgement, it is love. I cannot read that passage of scripture to mean anything other than, if you are beholding your brothers fault you are doing so because you have a beam in your eye, it is not your job to fix anyones fault other than your own. It is in no way a teaching on how to remove a beam from your own eye to remove a speck of dust from your brother's.
Actually, judgment is according to love (Philippians 1:9 (kjv)).
And of course Jesus is teaching us to deal with our own sins before we begin to presume that we can deal with other people's sins.
However, if we have dealt with our own sins, we then have the moral rectitude to help others with their sins.
For Jesus says that if you take the beam out of your own eye, you will be able to then see clearly to be able to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
I have a friend who is obviously an alcoholic. I can see clearly that he has a problem with alcohol. It has adversely affected his life.
I don't think that the fact that I can see with my eyes that he has a problem with alcohol means that I have a beam in my own eye. I don't even drink alcohol.
I also have not attempted to change him by judging him to his face.
I prefer to bring scripture to bear on his situation and let the Holy Spirit do His work.
Last edited by justbyfaith; 05-31-2022 at 08:07 PM..
1Co 9:19, For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20, And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21, To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22, To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23, And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
That is exactly what He was saying with the use of a parable.
And, He was also mentioning that if you really want to see other people change, change yourself first and then, having been changed, you will have the moral rectitude to lead others into change.
Jesus here makes it clear that if you judge you will also be judged.
And everyone will be judged.
With the same measure ye mete out, it will be meted out to you.
So, it is only safe to deal with your own sins before attempting to change other people with your judgments.
Actually, judgment is according to love (Philippians 1:9 (kjv)).
And of course Jesus is teaching us to deal with our own sins before we begin to presume that we can deal with other people's sins.
However, if we have dealt with our own sins, we then have the moral rectitude to help others with their sins.
For Jesus says that if you take the beam out of your own eye, you will be able to then see clearly to be able to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
I have a friend who is obviously an alcoholic. I can see clearly that he has a problem with alcohol. It has adversely affected his life.
I don't think that the fact that I can see with my eyes that he has a problem with alcohol means that I have a beam in my own eye. I don't even drink alcohol.
I also have not attempted to change him by judging him to his face.
I prefer to bring scripture to bear on his situation and let the Holy Spirit do His work.
Unbelievable. Jesus clearly tells us not to judge lest we be judged and you rewrite what He said.
Unbelievable. Jesus clearly tells us not to judge lest we be judged and you rewrite what He said.
I fear our brother is hopelessly lost in the OT under the veil of ignorance from reading Moses, pcamps. He seems unable to extricate himself and his hardened heart from the ancient ignorance.
Unbelievable. Jesus clearly tells us not to judge lest we be judged and you rewrite what He said.
No, just quoting what Paul said.
Phl 1:9, And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I fear our brother is hopelessly lost in the OT under the veil of ignorance from reading Moses, pcamps. He seems unable to extricate himself and his hardened heart from the ancient ignorance.
Philippians 1:9 is not a scripture out of the Old Testament and therefore your statement is unwarranted.
[b]Phl 1:9, And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
Philippians 1:9 is not a scripture out of the Old Testament and therefore your statement is unwarranted.
Philippians is NOT referring to judging others. It refers to judging yourself and your own actions in the love of God and each other so that it may abound.
Philippians is NOT referring to judging others. It refers to judging yourself and your own actions in the love of God and each other so that it may abound.
Once you have judged yourself and dealt with the beam that is in your own eye, you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.
1 Corinthians 6:1-3 does refer to judging others; and so do the verses previous to it (1 Corinthians 5:9-13).
I fear our brother is hopelessly lost in the OT under the veil of ignorance from reading Moses, pcamps. He seems unable to extricate himself and his hardened heart from the ancient ignorance.
That condition is what "Backslidden" is. People under the fist covenant can still be saved. So there is hope.
Jesus bride= the little flock( Luke 12:32)=144,000 of Rev 14:3--Rev 1:6--Rev 20:4-6- these will help Jesus judge. They will rule as kings and priests beside him on thrones. The bible says they will even judge the fallen angels.
After our death, yes.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
