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We all make a "conscious choice" based on the evidence that is available for us to examine.
AND YES, IT IS MY COSNCIOUS CHOICE TO BELIEVE IT
That is right.....there you go!!
The point is that Ur's teach that no one has the will to choose!! And that when one choose Christ, the christian is accused of saving themself....
It is your will (self) that is making this conscious choice......YOU (self) have reasoned with it and that YOU, Rodger are choosing to accept this to be truth....in YOUR mind (self again) to believe that this stuff is true!
Ur's teach we don't have the will or the ability of the self-will to make choices and that God is the one who is making these choices in our lives....for His purpose!!!
See it takes two to be in agreement.....about sin! God and man!!!
What I was trying to convey, Rodger, and not just to you but to everyone who suffers from the same condition, was that had you possessed this unwavering trust in God's perfect justice you could have saved yourself the breakdown.
And what I was trying to convey to you thrillobyte is that there is convincing proof that the Bible does not support the idea that God's "perfect justice" includes sustaining anyone alive in an inescapable state of suffering forever. The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved
This second link that I am allowed to post Scripturally covers all aspects of the subject.
But of course "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still," as the saying goes.
And yes, I understand that works both ways. Savior of the World Series
Last edited by rodgertutt; 09-15-2009 at 12:14 PM..
Reason: spelling
[quote=Latte'Chic;10768028] Rodger you are choosing to accept this to be truth....in YOUR mind (self again) to believe that this stuff is true!
quote]
Yes, you are quite right. I believe "this stuff" to be true.
For the first 500 years after Christ, universalism was the prevailing doctrine believed and taught by the Christian church.
The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.”
And they were reading the Bible in its original language.
That is right.....there you go!!
The point is that Ur's teach that no one has the will to choose!! And that when one choose Christ, the christian is accused of saving themself....
It is your will (self) that is making this conscious choice......YOU (self) have reasoned with it and that YOU, Rodger are choosing to accept this to be truth....in YOUR mind (self again) to believe that this stuff is true!
Ur's teach we don't have the will or the ability of the self-will to make choices and that God is the one who is making these choices in our lives....for His purpose!!!
See it takes two to be in agreement.....about sin! God and man!!!
Nope, not true for all UR's.
We have a will and it chooses and God never gives up, ever.
And what I was trying to convey to you thrillobyte is that there is convincing proof that the Bible does not support the idea that God's "perfect justice" includes sustaining anyone alive in an inescapable state of suffering forever.
Yes, but you only discovered this "truth" AFTER you had your breakdown. Before that happened, had you possessed unwavering faith in God's unfailing ability to render perfect justice to all, no matter the consequences for each person individually, you would never have had to go on this quest for the "truth" as a result of having come apart at the seams. It was a totally unnecessary loss of 12-years of your life.
I, too, could have chosen to abandon faith in God's perfect mercy and justice and tortured myself to the point of coming unglued. And, to be truthful, it HAS made me twinge on occasion the thought of God sending people to hell, but I always remind myself that He is bigger than I am and I trust His sense of justice without hesitation. And that sustains me knowing that "Whatsoever a man sows, that also shall he reap." Perfect, balanced justice, my friend.
Yes, but you only discovered this "truth" AFTER you had your breakdown. Before that happened, had you possessed unwavering faith in God's unfailing ability to render perfect justice to all, Perfect, balanced justice, my friend.
I guess you didn't read the first entry in my Rodger Tutt blog on this forum.
Before my breakdown I did not ever have unwavering faith in God's "eternal suffering" justice.
Legoman....Did you not choose to post this? Or did God take your fingers and make you type this post? Or is it just an illusion, deception that you have no control over?
Yes of course I chose to post this. You miss the point. The point is: we choose to do things based on what we think is true. But what we think is true may be a deception. Athiests choose to not believe in God because their eyes have not been opened yet. But when God opens a persons eyes, they will choose to follow Christ, because now they see!
Quote:
No, sin deceives the world! God grace saves the individual from their sin through Jesus Christ. People choose and like to listen to the lies of Satan and remain in their sin!!
No, Satan deceives the world (Rev 12:9). One of the ways he deceives the world is by tricking people into thinking they are in control, when really God is in control.
Quote:
God's grace through His Holy Spirit opened the Scripture showing me of my sin. I believe Him about this sin.....WHY? Because what He showed me I was doing and what He revealed to me proved what I was doing was sinful.......
Then because of what He was revealing to me through His word...... I acknowledged my sin and took the responsibility that what I was doing in my life was sinful. Satan didn't make me do it, nobody made me do it, I consciously chose to live a life of sin and unbelief.
And the Lord God came to me and gave me the choice to repent and turn away from that life darken with my sin of making my own choices, walking independent of God and received His forgiveness through His precious Son's Jesus Christ' perfect gift.
That gift was His blood shed on the cross paying for all, all that sin which was in my heart and life. I know with all my heart I would not or could not pay that debt for what I was doing that was being reveal to me through His word.
And every day since I make the conscious choice to trust, honor, reverence, follow, obey, serve in the faith He gives me the moment my eyes open for that day....
BUT WHEN YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE SAVED, YOU KNOW IT!!!
So what you are saying is that God revealed himself to you, revealed how sinful you were and then based on that you chose to follow him. Exactly! If God hadn't revealed this to you, you would have continued in your sin, blind to God, and deceived.
Just like others, who have not had those revelations yet; they will not choose to follow Christ, simply because God hasn't revealed Himself yet. And while they are in that state - they are deceived, and don't even know it.
Just like others, who have not had those revelations yet; they will not choose to follow Christ, simply because God hasn't revealed Himself yet. And while they are in that state - they are deceived, and don't even know it.
And, those of us who had breakdowns because of the belief in an eternal hell needed that deception removed before we could freely receive and trust the love of God in Christ.
Testimonies of the effects of the eternal-hell doctrine
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
Good post, lego.
And, those of us who had breakdowns because of the belief in an eternal hell needed that deception removed before we could freely receive and trust the love of God in Christ.
That is right.....there you go!!
The point is that Ur's teach that no one has the will to choose!! And that when one choose Christ, the christian is accused of saving themself....
It is your will (self) that is making this conscious choice......YOU (self) have reasoned with it and that YOU, Rodger are choosing to accept this to be truth....in YOUR mind (self again) to believe that this stuff is true!
Ur's teach we don't have the will or the ability of the self-will to make choices and that God is the one who is making these choices in our lives....for His purpose!!!
See it takes two to be in agreement.....about sin! God and man!!!
You are confused here Latte'Chic.
Of course we make choices all day long. What scripture says is that no one will choose to follow God until God reveals himself to them.
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What i was trying to convey
