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By the way here's some definitions for ya.... Criticize: one who forms and expresses judgments; one whom finds fault. Attack: to criticize strongly; the act of attacking; assault.
HMMMM..........Here's your post to read again....
No....it's the Ur's who come off with the attitude when people don't agree with them!
And I am not going to put up with it anymore and especially with your condescending manner either.....
Both of your post and voice are full of condescension, criticism and you deserve to be called on it also!!!
I am getting sick of the Ur's just coming along and say what the please to other's anyway they choose too. That they have the license to salvation, the words of the bible, and whom God's Holy Spirit is talking to....
Especially telling us how we are force fed, legalistic, tormentors. You bet I am not going to put up with it any longer.....myself! So be it!
I did not once question whether you were a Christian as you have done to others. How you publicly treat people who disagree with you is a public affair. I did not question your faith in Christ just your behavior toward your brothers and sisters. If you are trying to imply that all criticism is a personal attack then please take your own advice. I have not seen one URer on here tell people that believe in ET that they aren't saved. In fact they couldn't possibly tell them that because of course ALL men will be saved.
Here is my favorite part in your last post where you criticize URers for being the arrogant ones :
I am getting sick of the Ur's just coming along and say what the please to other's anyway they choose too. That they have the license to salvation, the words of the bible, and whom God's Holy Spirit is talking to....
There is a rich irony in saying that URers think they have the 'license to salvation'. What does 'license to salvation' mean if not some form of exclusivity? I can't imagine a URer thinking they have the 'license to salvation' as you put it. We believe that only God holds the gift of salvation and dispenses it to all men as He sees fit. And God doesnt ask for permision from anyone (even the recipient) before giving it to them. Salvation is found in Christ not in the doctrine of eternal hell or the will of man.
The simple question: Doyou believe URers are Christians or not?
I can love a God who had his only Son beaten to a pulp, who lived like a vagabond.
I can love a God who destroyed cities, Sodom and Gommorah, Gehanna.
I can love a God who drowned people.
I can love a God who did all these things . . . . . let's not put God in a pretty box with a beautiful bow to our liking . . .he is great, He is Glory, He is Marvelous . . . He is all knowing, just, and the author and finisher . . . I love him no matter how he finishes . . . . . you can't, and that's okay, and it's okay that I can . . . . . I have no conditions on HIM who made me.
I can love a God who had his only Son beaten to a pulp, who lived like a vagabond.
I can love a God who destroyed cities, Sodom and Gommorah, Gehanna.
I can love a God who drowned people.
I can love a God who did all these things . . . . . let's not put God in a pretty box with a beautiful bow to our liking . . .he is great, He is Glory, He is Marvelous . . . He is all knowing, just, and the author and finisher . . . I love him no matter how he finishes . . . . . you can't, and that's okay, and it's okay that I can . . . . . I have no conditions on HIM who made me.
To me, the greatest of all manifestations of God's grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe that God will sustain anyone alive in an inescapable state of eternal suffering forever, and not have a breakdown thinking about it. The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved
I did not once question whether you were a Christian as you have done to others. How you publicly treat people who disagree with you is a public affair. I did not question your faith in Christ just your behavior toward your brothers and sisters. If you are trying to imply that all criticism is a personal attack then please take your own advice. I have not seen one URer on here tell people that believe in ET that they aren't saved. In fact they couldn't possibly tell them that because of course ALL men will be saved.
Here is my favorite part in your last post where you criticize URers for being the arrogant ones :
I am getting sick of the Ur's just coming along and say what the please to other's anyway they choose too. That they have the license to salvation, the words of the bible, and whom God's Holy Spirit is talking to....
There is a rich irony in saying that URers think they have the 'license to salvation'. What does 'license to salvation' mean if not some form of exclusivity? I can't imagine a URer thinking they have the 'license to salvation' as you put it. We believe that only God holds the gift of salvation and dispenses it to all men as He sees fit. And God doesn't ask for permision from anyone (even the recipient) before giving it to them. Salvation is found in Christ not in the doctrine of eternal hell or the will of man.
The simple question: Doyou believe URers are Christians or not?
How "I" publicly treat.....read your own post!
And I guess you really haven't read much in this Christianity forum in what most Ur's have said and assumed of many..... Hang around for a while, you'll get an ear full!! Or should I say....eye full!!
Where did I say someone wasn't saved? Another judgmental accusation.
Quote:
What they don't trust is the interpretation of scripture that you have been force fed.
And what exactly does this imply?
And to your answer, NO, I do not believe universalism is of God and is taught in the Scripture.
I don't care how many scripture (you will twist, spin and take out of context, rewording to Ur's (man's) interpretation of God's Holy word), that you will try to defend you position.....
Also....I personally do not care about your opinion of who I am....because see it doesn't mean nada!
And yes, I'll say it again........ "I'm sick of Ur's saying what ever pleases them to whom ever they choose to say it too."
PS....criticising is pesonally judging and attacking another individual, just like three of your post!
once again definitions: Criticize: one who forms and expresses judgments; one whom finds fault. Attack: to criticize strongly; the act of attacking; assault.
Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 09-17-2009 at 01:07 PM..
I can understand that, when I almost became a Muslim, I almost accepted the idea of hell (everlasting torment), I thought maybe there are people, so evil that they deserve it. But actually I did not believe God will sent anybody to hell - though the possibility exists, and I thought the people in hell would lose their mind, so it are only a kind of zombies tormented, that the actual soul/mind is basically annihilated.
But unlike the bible, the koran seems to teach endless hell without doubt.
A PHONE CONVERSATION WITH A MUSLIM MISSIONARY
A Muslim missionary called me on my ministry phone in response to my newspaper ad “HELL IS NOT ENDLESS.”
(I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature to people who responded to these ads that I have put in two of Toronto’s largest newspapers since 1981.)
The Muslim missionary said “Unless you convert to Islam you WILL go to hell.”
I said, “That’s what some Christians say if I don’t convert to Christianity.”
He said, “But the difference is that Islam has the truth.”
I said, “That’s what some Christians say about their beliefs.”
He said, “After you die you will learn that the Koran is the word of God and Islam has the truth.”
I said, “I guess I’ll just have to wait until then to find out for sure.”
He said, “But it will be too late for you then.”
I laughed and said, “That’s exactly what some Christians say.”
I don’t think he thought it was funny.
I then expected him to say what a Mormon missionary said to me in Montreal. “At the judgment, as you are being cast into hell, I will point my finger at you and say, ‘I told you so. I gave you a chance but you didn’t take it and now it’s too late’.”
It seems that we are supposed to believe that millions of Muslims, by sheer “accident” of birth, are born into a belief system that teaches their children that even to consider Christianity to be the truth will land them in an eternity of suffering in hell.
I believe that the horrific false doctrine of endless suffering in hell causes more suffering here on earth than any other idea that people believe. That is why it gives me such great pleasure to offer people the urls that contain evidence that the Bible does not support such a concept of God.
Also click on http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm
to find A LOT of scriptural evidence that God has both the ability and the intention to eventually save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved.
Amen, if God is an endless hell God then he can put you there if it so pleases him and you cannot trust that he won't.
Amen, let's not put God in the pretty box.
IMO the idea that God will sustain anyone alive in a state of inescapable suffering forever is the greatest of all blasphemies that can be attributed to the character of God.
IT IS THE WORLD’S MOST EVIL BELIEF - IMHO
The eternal torment theology of the Arminian Christian relies on so-called “free will” and luck.
The god that Arminian Christian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures
“Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”
The eternal torment theology of the Calvinist Christian eternal tormentor relies on God alone, not “free will” at all. It is summed up by the word TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the elect.
The god that Calvinistic Christian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures
"I created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you undeserving ones to go to heaven where you will be happy forever." John Calvin said there will be infants a span long in hell because they were not among the elect. (A span is the distance between the tip of the thumb to the tip of the little finger.)
And then both the Arminian and Calvinistic eternal tormentors say that the feelings that they have for this god of theirs is “love.”
Without God’s sustaining power everyone would cease to exist. So if anyone were to suffer forever, our all-powerful God (Who is Love in essence, not just loving) would be fully 100% responsible for it. We would have to conclude that any definition of the manifestation of “love-in-essence” includes eternally sustaining people alive in an inescapable state of suffering.
What a travesty; what a revolting definition of love it is that God, Who is love personified, would grant any creature a will so strong that they can choose themselves into an irreversible state of never ending suffering (Arminian) or deserve to suffer forever just by being born into the human race (Calvinist)!!
And I guess you really haven't read much in this Christianity forum in what most Ur's have said and assumed of many..... Hang around for a while, you'll get an ear full!! Or should I say....eye full!!
Where did I say someone wasn't saved? Another judgmental accusation.
And what exactly does this imply?
And to your answer, NO, I do not believe universalism is of God and is taught in the Scripture.
I don't care how many scripture (you will twist, spin and take out of context, rewording to Ur's (man's) interpretation of God's Holy word), that you will try to defend you position.....
Also....I personally do not care about your opinion of who I am....because see it doesn't mean nada!
And yes, I'll say it again........ "I'm sick of Ur's saying what ever pleases them to whom ever they choose to say it too."
PS....criticising is pesonally judging and attacking another individual, just like three of your post!
once again definitions: Criticize: one who forms and expresses judgments; one whom finds fault. Attack: to criticize strongly; the act of attacking; assault.
If all criticism is personal attack then please lead by example and stop criticizing the people on here who disagree with you. And accusing people of "twist(ing), spin(ing) and take(ing) out of context, rewording to Ur's (man's) interpretation of God's Holy word" is simply slanderous. You are not engaging arguements. You are simply saying that you are right and anyone who disagrees is guilty of distortion.
Has it ever occurred to you that the doctrine you initially received is the distortion? Please tell me why you can be so certain this isnt the case? BTW "I know it in my heart" or any similar argument doesn't cut it. Every person in here seriously studies the word.
And once again being told you are wrong is not a personal attack. If you disagree with that then its also a personal attack when you do it to me or others by your OWN standards. Once again follow your own standards and lead by example.
Everyone will believe what they are convinced is truth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic
"I'm sick of Ur's saying what ever pleases them to whom ever they choose to say it to."
Latte'Chic, I don't understand where this statement is coming from.
Everyone will choose to believe whatever they are convinced is the truth about what the Bible teaches.
I’m just so glad that I learned about the following information because it enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78).
I’m 70 years old now.
But people who cannot love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god can discover that many of the arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been refuted in the following link. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Bible...Explained.html
If all criticism is personal attack then please lead by example and stop criticizing the people on here who disagree with you. And accusing people of "twist(ing), spin(ing) and take(ing) out of context, rewording to Ur's (man's) interpretation of God's Holy word" is simply slanderous. You are not engaging arguements. You are simply saying that you are right and anyone who disagrees is guilty of distortion.
Has it ever occurred to you that the doctrine you initially received is the distortion? Please tell me why you can be so certain this isnt the case? BTW "I know it in my heart" or any similar argument doesn't cut it. Every person in here seriously studies the word.
And once again being told you are wrong is not a personal attack. If you disagree with that then its also a personal attack when you do it to me or others by your OWN standards. Once again follow your own standards and lead by example.
EXCUSE ME.....but just who do you think you are, mikeyd1975?
Your intimidation is not working one bit. And don't even turn your guilt back upon me....you did not have to reply to my post. You made the conscious choice to go there accusing and spoke your own distorted views.
By the way this is a public forum did you forget that! And I can post whenever, however, whatever I choose....got it!!
And let me tell you right now......when I see LIES such as what universalism teaches, I will stand up and speak against it whenever and there is nothing you can do about it.... And YOUR intimidation will not stop me!
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HMMMM..........Here's your post to read again....
The greatest of all manifestations of grace
