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No it's not, and no, you won't..again. You'll just repeat all the crap you always have...(yawn...)
..you're lost. ***
Rehtoric, nothing more ... What is here for me to answer? ... what do you want me to say? ... "I know you are but what am i"?
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God's harmony is His...whether you consider it to be wrong or right, He is never wrong...and His right can seem pretty wrong to us at times, but HE KNOWS...AND IN THE END, NO MATTER WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO US, IT WILL BE HIS HARMONY.
So according to you God and his word is completely illogical and its okay because he is God, and that is basically your logic and your argument.
My argument is that God and his word are not illogical.
You say reconcile all things to himself means burning in hell forever, and this is harmony?
I say reconcile all things to himself means restoring harmony between all things and himself, and that means all things will serve him and will be at one with him in peace and love.
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Wrong.
Again ... What do you want me to say to this...? This is just more rhetoric. You are like a child, and this post does nothing but prove you are brainwashed silly.
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You are so deceived.
More rhetoric ...
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You just don't like the answers...sorry about that, it is the Word of God.
What answers? You haven't answered anything in this dialogue ... More proof of brainwashing.
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Not me who looks like the fool...!
Really?
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Ummmmmmm......will?......choice?....seems they do go very well together Ironmaw...what's wrong?...loosing your "CL?"
Me ? Loosing my cool? What the heck? You are the one typing in all caps screaming and yelling and having a conniption fit for everyone to see ... My goodness you are insane ... My dear, please seek psychiatric help before you hurt yourself or someone else.
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Wrong again.
More rhetoric ...
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Quote:Verna
If anyone rejects God's Truth upon hearing it, and they die before recieving Him, TOO LATE!! NOW YOU PROOVE THAT THEY HAVE A SECOND CHANCE AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN LAID SIX FEET UNDER!! YOU HAVE FAILED MISERABLY IN SHOWING ME WHERE IN THE BIBLE IT STATES THIS!!!
1Pe 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel is preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit [/quote]
...And here we have it folks...LOOK! Ironmaws explanation...FINALLY! we get it out of him....LOL!!!!!
More rhetoric ... You are just doing what you claim I am doing in a previous post and saying dead doesn't mean dead. More rhetoric ...
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Oh, um, excuse me Ironmaw...I got a lttle excited there for a moment...but for your information...this just happens to be talking about the living who are dead spiritually...?...LOL!!
See , dead doesn't mean dead ... Rhetoric.
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...But that's o.k....I understand....you may need to go take a laxative now............
OH BOY IRONMAW...have you ever quoted it this time...you really blew it!!! Now....wiggle out of this...
More inane rhetoric ....
....
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Yes, You may want to do that...
Thank you sweet Jesus!!!
More of the same inane rhetoric ...
Do you realize you have just proven in so many hours by psychological standards that you are the victim of emotional and psychological violence and brainwashing in the form of false religion? You have demonstrated many of the symptoms in these last posts. You have been reduced to throwing a screaming yelling tantrum making no coherent sense. You are acting like a child and that is the biggest proof of it. I really am worried about you ... I pray that god heals your violent broken soul. God bless ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 09-26-2009 at 12:34 PM..
The constant "you just want to sin and let others sin as much as they want!!!" argument really makes me take pause. Because it makes me think others who keep screaming these "YOU LOVE SIN AND WANT TO KEEP SINNING. IT IS SWEET CANDY, ETC." actually think that sin leads to happiness?? Sin leads to misery.
A person who knows God is not envious of another person who is trapped in sin. A person who knows God understands that that person is headed down a road that is leading to misery. Sin is emptiness. There should be a REJOICING to know in your heart, that person may be headed down that path of misery, but ultimately God is going to bring them over on HIS PATH to righteousness. That is the good news!!
Sin isn't "candy". That's a very disturbing idea and makes me wonder if those who continually seem to espouse that idea are somehow envious of those who "get to sin" and still "get to go to heaven". It seems they have some major issues dealing with the sin in their own lives. That is why there seems to be such a ferocity in their posts.
Perhaps they imagine, let's take for example a sterotypical Hollywood type, who has earthly riches, etc., doing all sorts of sinful things, etc. and then they think "oh no! That person isn't going to heaven!!! If I have to suffer through this life, I can do it as long as I know that those rich hollywood types aren't going to eventually get to go to heaven too! Because it wouldn't be fair!!!!!!" I have known people in the past who thought these things. What is there to be envious of, when you have God's love?? When you know what leads to emptiness and despair, and what leads to life?? SIN leads to DESPAIR. Sin is emptiness.
God is taking ALL through His refining fire.
Have no fear, Sin does NOT enter the kingdom of God.
All sin is purged.
HOW?
Through His love.
His LOVE destroys the sin in us.
REJOICE! ALL sin is being destroyed.
Not the human beings TRAPPED in SIN! (remember we were SUBJECTED to futility. SUBJECTED TO! for a reason. God's plan is PERFECT, just as His love is PERFECT!)
Lust, Greed, Hatred? all being destroyed.
REJOICE! ALL have been reconciled to God.
REJOICE! Jesus Christ IS the saviour of the WORLD!
REJOICE!
Why would you even think to describe sin as "candy"?? When you know the truth of sin?? All have fallen short of the glory of God. ALL. For a reason. We were subjected to futility for a reason:
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.
See... that's the thing. God's love is all encompassing. When you know that eventually ALL will finally someday walk that PATH of RIGHTEOUSNESS through Jesus... your heart becomes enlarged to be able to LOVE all, just as HE loves all. This is what "Jesus in your heart" actually means. So many have it so backwards. They HATE their enemies and feel justified in doing so. No. GOD said to LOVE YOUR ENEMIES. What happens when you love your enemies? They become your FRIENDS. Even if right now while they are under the cloud of darkness THEY don't feel they are your friend, they are your friend in YOUR HEART. You have the light of God's love in YOUR heart. LOVE CONQUERS ALL.
For those who keep screaming "you all just want to keep sinning"... I would say you need to take a good long hard look at yourself and your heart and what you see in other people. And through WHAT heart you are seeing other people... YOUR HEART? Or GOD's heart??
God sees the inner.
We see the outer.
That is why so many become so confused.
They cannot get past the shallow exterior and see the inner person inside.
They only see the shell. Well, the shell of a person is nothing. It's what is on the inside that counts. We are all the same. We are all HIS children.
ALL are on the way BACK HOME.
All are being led back home on their own unique path.
ALL have value.
ALL are loved.
Not ALL know they are loved, but eventually ALL WILL come to the knowledge of the Lord. For...They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. Is. 11:9
His PLAN is magnificent.
And how wonderful that when you do start to understand His plan, that ALL will be reconciled.... you start to see people in a new light. A redeemed light. You cast off those ideas you had of people and start to see them and LOVE them TRULY as your brothers and sisters. What could GLORIFY GOD MORE than to develop the LOVE in your heart for ALL people??? Can I ask you... WHAT could possibly GLORIFY GOD more than for His children to develop LOVE for all people?? Isn't that the second of His 2 great commandments??? Some of those that we love may be very LOST right now... but in your heart you know they will be FOUND. He IS the Good Shepherd who will leave the 99 to go seek out and bring back the ONE that is lost.
HOW GREAT HE IS!
Brilliant sparrow! God is really working through you today. Sin is decidedly NOT candy. Sin leads to misery.
Never forget our purpose, which is to learn LOVE.
Not to "try to sin as much as we can while still getting to go to heaven".
Yes there were other books and notice that it is the other books from which we are judged not the book of life. (12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.)
But it does seem odd to mention those not in a book being thrown somewhere if that means no one is thrown anywhere..does that make sense?
I totally agree with you. There is also the Lamb's book of life in Rev. 21:
25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
So only those written in the book enter into the city... Lamb's book of life refers to Christ right? so I don't know what the difference is between this and the other or if they are the same.
Bottom line is that all have to be purified to enter yet the gates are always open. So whatever it is that causes the purification, I don't really know but it does happen. Perhaps it is death itself or perhaps it is death plus the lake of fire.
No...it makes perfect sense...if you name wasn't written in the Book of Life meaning you didn't die in Christ...you were thrown into the Lake of Fire to endure the Second Death purification. Remember that the other books contained only those who had died before Christ and who had died as unbelievers after Christ at that time. There were those who had died before the time of Christ, in faith, Abraham being one of them and I would imagine his name was written in the Book of Life.
I believe that the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book are one in the same.
You want a reason to keep on sinning and not make the appropriate changes you know you need to make in this life before meeting YOUR MAKER:
Sin is sweet and some of you LOVE IT and will find any good reason to keep on eating that sweet candy, even it means twisting the scriptures to suit your own corrupted taste buds:
This is a lie Betsey. Everyone struggles with sin in their life. I know I do. But that is why Jesus came: to save us from our sin.
NOT TO LET US KEEP ON SINNING AND HAVE A FREE RIDE LIKE YOU SUGGEST
You know what the biggest sin around is? PRIDE. You can find examples of it everywhere, and almost no one realizes they are committing it. I'm guilty too.
We all need to learn humility. With Jesus working through me, I will eventually overcome.
To say anything else is to suggest Jesus fails at taking the sin of the world away.
That's not actually how it works. Religion invented the no second chance clause then expects people to prove wrong something that does not even exist in scriputure.
There is only one thing that matters and it is not what men say scripture means, it is what God does.
Nothing contradicts God sending his son on a mission "Saviour of the World"
Not even you can prove he will not accomplish it, because it is not up to you.
Jesus saves the world, 100% of it. You can't prove God wrong.
But you can try.
Who invented these passages:
Psalm 119:160 All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.
All means all...right?
Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
Matthew 18:8
..... It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matthew 25:30
"And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'"
Matthew 25:41-46 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
Photo courtesy U.S. Army (http://health.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=brainwashing.htm&url=http://korea50.army.mil/ - broken link) American POWs in the
Korean War
In the late 1950s, psychologist Robert Jay Lifton studied former prisoners of Korean War and Chinese war camps. He determined that they'd undergone a multistep process that began with attacks on the prisoner's sense of self and ended with what appeared to be a change in beliefs. Lifton ultimately defined a set of steps involved in the brainwashing cases he studied:
Assault on identity
Guilt
Self-betrayal
Breaking point
Leniency
Compulsion to confess
Channeling of guilt
Releasing of guilt
Progress and harmony
Final confession and rebirth
*Each of thes*e stages takes place in an environment of isolation, meaning all "normal" social reference points are unavailable, and mind-clouding techniques like sleep deprivation and malnutrition are typically part of the process. There is often the presence or constant threat of physical harm, which adds to the target's difficulty in thinking critically and independently.
We can roughly divide the process Lifton identified into three stages: breaking down the self, introducing the possibility of salvation, and rebuilding the self.
Breaking down the self
Assault on identity: You are not who you think you are.
This is a systematic attack on a target's sense of self (also called his identity or ego) and his core belief system. The agent denies everything that makes the target who he is: "You are not a soldier." "You are not a man." "You are not defending freedom." The target is under constant attack for days, weeks or months, to the point that he becomes exhausted, confused and disoriented. In this state, his beliefs seem less solid.
Guilt: You are bad.
While the identity crisis is setting in, the agent is simultaneously creating an overwhelming sense of guilt in the target. He repeatedly and mercilessly attacks the subject for any "sin" the target has committed, large or small. He may criticize the target for everything from the "evilness" of his beliefs to the way he eats too slowly. The target begins to feel a general sense of shame, that everything he does is wrong.
Self-betrayal: Agree with me that you are bad.
Once the subject is disoriented and drowning in guilt, the agent forces him (either with the threat of physical harm or of continuance of the mental attack) to denounce his family, friends and peers who share the same "wrong" belief system that he holds. This betrayal of his own beliefs and of people he feels a sense of loyalty to increases the shame and loss of identity the target is already experiencing.
Breaking point: Who am I, where am I and what am I supposed to do?
With his identity in crisis, experiencing deep shame and having betrayed what he has always believed in, the target may undergo what in the lay community is referred to as a "nervous breakdown." In psychology, "nervous breakdown" is really just a collection of severe symptoms that can indicate any number of psychological disturbances. It may involve uncontrollable sobbing, deep depression and general disorientation. The target may have lost his grip on reality and have the feeling of being completely lost and alone. When the target reaches his breaking point, his sense of self is pretty much up for grabs -- he has no clear understanding of who he is or what is happening to him. At this point, the agent sets up the temptation to convert to another belief system that will save the target from his misery.
Maybe some of you should really look into this ... Here is the link so you can read through the whole article ...
Though brainwashing and indoctrination by organized religion is not the same in all respects to this specific type of brainwashing, many of the same techniques are involved. And of course over a much more extended period of time and instead of being isolated, people are surrounded by others who have been brainwashed in order to enforce the concepts and ideas being presented.
Psalm 119:160 All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.
All means all...right?
Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
Matthew 18:8
..... It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matthew 25:30
"And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'"
Matthew 25:41-46 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
You really need to take an honest look at how the words "aion" and "aionios" are translated. There is plenty of reference material in other threads on this board.
But why should I believe your version of the bible? Many versions do not translate the above verses with the same meaning you are presenting.
What should I do?
Gal 1:8 for example:
but even if we or a messenger out of heaven may proclaim good news to you different from what we did proclaim to you -- anathema let him be!
So do I really have to worry about being eternally condemned, or is it only "anathema" that I need to worry about? By the way, anathema means to be cursed, but no curse is ETERNAL because God has declared all curses will end in Revelations. So I know your translation of Gal 1:8 is wrong.
No...it makes perfect sense...if you name wasn't written in the Book of Life meaning you didn't die in Christ...you were thrown into the Lake of Fire to endure the Second Death purification. Remember that the other books contained only those who had died before Christ and who had died as unbelievers after Christ at that time. There were those who had died before the time of Christ, in faith, Abraham being one of them and I would imagine his name was written in the Book of Life.
I believe that the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book are one in the same.
I would agree with you that they are the same. However, my argument is that God predestined those he foreknew(his creation) to be pure (seek Him), so under that premise I say that the process is unknown but what we can say for sure is that the book of life is a recording of all those God foreknew which would be all mankind. Same with Christ's book. But that is just my theory and yours is just as valid. God only knows!
Though brainwashing and indoctrination by organized religion is not the same in all respects to this specific type of brainwashing, many of the same techniques are involved. And of course over a much more extended period of time and instead of being isolated, people are surrounded by others who have been brainwashed in order to enforce the concepts and ideas being presented.
Brainwashing indeed. Goes hand in hand with deception. The bible plainly declares the whole world is deceived at one time or another, but everyone is always like: "NO, no, its not me, I'm not deceived".
HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IT IF YOU WERE DECEIVED? You wouldn't. That's why its called deception!
Psalm 119:160 All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal(olam - proven time and again not to mean eternal but only beyond the horizon or out of sight).
We all know that the law is not eternal ... It will pass away in the fullness of times. There will no longer be need for law as all power and principalities will be made subject to Christ and God will be all in all. Even in Christ time the law of love they neighbor and hate thine enemy was abolished by Christ himself(Mat 5:43).
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All means all...right?
Right, but olam doesn't mean eternal, it is a proven mistranslation of the word. That is where you are missing the boat.
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Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal (aion - means age or eon in english) sin."
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Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally(this word is not in the original manuscripts but was added in by the translators of that version of the bible)condemned(anathema, to be set apart or separated)!
Galatians 1:8 (King James Version)
8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed(anathema).
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1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal(aionios - doesn't mean eternal, it means pertaining to the ages) life in him.
Aionios life is the indwelling of the spirit in the ages. It is a reference to the quality of life had and not the length of life.
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Matthew 18:8
..... It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal(aionios - doesn't mean eternal) fire.
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Matthew 25:30
"And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'"
But the worthless servant will be saved yet so as by fire ...1Cr 3:15
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Matthew 25:41-46 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal(aionios doesn't mean eternal) fire prepared for the devil and his angels
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal(aionios doesn't mean eternal) fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
"Then they will go away to eternal(aionios doesn't mean eternal) punishment, but the righteous to eternal(aionios doesn't mean eternal) life."
All mistranslations. They are saved as though by fire 1Cr 3:15
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Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal(aionios does't mean eternal) fire.
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