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Regarding the OP, this verse provides some food for thought:
1 Cor 5:4 When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
This is the 3rd time I've seen this verse come up in the past week. Do people really believe 2 Thes 2:11-12 is talking about people being damned to an eternal hell because God sent them a strong delusion? In other words, God deludes people so they go to hell?
Hey Legoman . . . I take this verse as truth, but also, curious to see how you view it?
2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
2Th 2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
we are established through the good word and work....
QUOTE from post # 43 by Mike: It is the exact same thing as with Adam. Adam had been created by God in a state of human perfection. Adam had a perfect relationship with God before he disobeyed God, just as Lucifer had had a perfect relationship with God before he rebelled. When Adam disobeyed God, he lost his relationship with God and then was in need of salvation. Once Adam was saved, he could not lose his salvation. UNQUOTE
Ok, Adam was in a perfect relationship with God but he fell away from that and became in need of salvation. Forgetting the argument of what he is saved FROM, what is he saved TO? Satan wasn't ever human and Christian traditional orthodoxy has it that he was able to rebel against God. So is Adam restored to a perfect relationship with God AFTER salvation? In what form? Physical, or spiritual, or a combination of both? Even if it's spiritual perfection and not physical, if Satan could rebel by his own will, what is to prevent someone or more than one from rebelling in this future perfect relationship world? If Adam was made to not go against God but went against God, it was either that God had no control or He planned it that way. If something could occur to thwart God's original plan, what assurance do we have that we ourselves or someone else will never rebel again? If He just allowed it to happen then I suppose we could rest assured that He will never allow it to happen again, BUT, doesn't that take away our free will? Can we be happy if we have no free will? Gasp? Can God be content with having children that he won't allow ever to go against His will?
Just some thoughts.
" It is a very simple thing to understand." Is it? Really?
Here is a book that was made available for reading online. It was written by Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the founder of Dallas Theological Seminary. It is called 'Salvation,' and covers the subject nicely. It contains two chapters addressing the eternal security of the believer. I hope someone will read and benefit from it.
Regarding the OP, this verse provides some food for thought:
1 Cor 5:4 When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
WOW!
Yes!
Our loving Father's plan is perfect.
Not one will be lost. No, not one!
Lots of things within us are on that wide road to destruction.
Hallelulujah... and God will be ALL in ALL.
It's a beautiful plan.
Open your eyes and take a look and see that God is GOOD.
Much better than you folks think.
His will WILL be done.
And I'm sorry but there is NOTHING that you can do about that.
To think that puny man could thwart God's plan for His creation is pretty darn laughable.
His will WILL be done.
He is the Good Shepherd.
Of course I can Sundance...and I've never eluded to anything different. I know full well the danger of losing my salvation, and how fine the line is between my walking in the spirit and walking in the flesh...and the only thing that separates one path (spirit), from the other (flesh), are the daily choices I make...first, in taking control of my thoughts.
Staying in the Word of God guides me in His truth and shows Me what He expects of me, and teaches me how to be ALL that He wants me to be. Only by the Word of God do I know what God expects of me, and instead of trying to fight it...hide from it...ignore it altogether...or try to make it mean something that is more "comfortable" for me to live with, I take it at face value. God's Word IS what IT IS!...nothing more, and nothing less, and it is so simple and easy for me to grasp and understand and DO, because I love Him more than life itself. I love Him more than I love my mother and father...I love Him more than I love my daughter and my precious little granddaughter...I love Him more than I love waking up in the mornings to a new day...I love Him so much that keeping His commandments...learning and abiding in His will for my life and not my own, is who I am created to be...and I love that He created me to be and feel this way toward Him. He is so good to me and He answers my prayers for my family and shines His light through me to those who do not know Him yet, but hopefully will.
What drives me to stay in focus in staying submitted to Him is the fear I have in Him and the wrath I know He is capable of...He is All Mighty...Awesome...He IS GOD!...and I stand in awe of Him...I respect Him with reverence and love and honor...and I worship Him with my life. I have the deepest respect for Him and give to Him my deepest devotion...
...and I believe IN Him...and I trust IN Him, that He means what He says when He says that I can lose my salvation if I willfully sin. If I willfully sin, that means I have NOT repented of my sins...I have NOT been born-again...I am not a child of God...I am NOT a believer...I am NOT saved from anything...and all the Scripture that speaks to believers, is NOT speaking to unbelievers...period.
So, yes Sundance...so I fully understand that I can lose my salvation...but I will not because I have free will to choose the way that I should go...and I will NOT be found in sin when He returns to receive His bride...I choose to be steadfast...and I choose to endure until the very end, and continue on just like I am doing now...I choose to continue to strengthen, grow and mature more through trials and tests.
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Well said.
