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I also didn't mean to imply that people need to be washed in the word but in Christ's act of redemption..
Oh and I did mean that we need to be washed in the word which is Jesus .... them same as we are to eat his flesh and drink his blood --- not physical but spiritually........ nothing to do with crackers and wine though......
What about judgment on works? -- what you are saying is that for some Christ just covers up the sin, and this is what traditional christianity believes, especially OSAS you can say I believe and then not love your neighbour as yourself, you can lie cheat and steal even murder and then Christ just covers your sin -- in the OT in Jer 7 God was against the Jews that were doing just that ..... they were using sacrifices to cover their sins with no true repentance or wanting to do what was right. Love God and loving their neighbours as themselves.
Amen.
Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Isaiah 2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low.
Isaiah 4:2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. 3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem 4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses
Matthew 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
What about judgment on works? -- what you are saying is that for some Christ just covers up the sin,
Remember the parable of the workers? The ones who worked all day received the same amount as those who had just started. Judgment on works happens here and now don't you think? Aren't you judged and condemned when you do the wrong thing? I would say that is similar to reaping in this life what you sow in this life.
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and this is what traditional christianity believes, especially OSAS you can say I believe and then not love your neighbour as yourself, you can lie cheat and steal even murder and then Christ just covers your sin -- in the OT in Jer 7 God was against the Jews that were doing just that ..... they were using sacrifices to cover their sins with no true repentance or wanting to do what was right. Love God and loving their neighbours as themselves.
It's not about what we do though... it has nothing to do with man's desire or work but with God's mercy. Therefore Christ's faithfulness and obedience is our reward. Some take their reward now and some take it later... all will be paid the same amount regardless of when they started. IMO.
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This is why I believe that preterism where it applies to the physical Jews has been completed but there is "spiritual" prophecy that is still being fullfilled and will be fulfilled --- preterism is only a part of the story............
I respect your view. I disagree in that there is nothing about the bible that really talks about an afterlife. All things within are perfectly applicable in our lives right now. Jesus offered the living water to the woman at the well... That same living water is shown in the New heavens and new earth in Revelation.
Oh and I did mean that we need to be washed in the word which is Jesus .... them same as we are to eat his flesh and drink his blood --- not physical but spiritually........ nothing to do with crackers and wine though......
LOL I knew that just flipping you a bit of well... making fun LOL
Washed in the message... I get it. I just think that Jesus did this once and for all. For you to be washed doesn't mean you have to even know you are being washed. The act itself made all things new once and for all. IMO
I respect your view. I disagree in that there is nothing about the bible that really talks about an afterlife. All things within are perfectly applicable in our lives right now. Jesus offered the living water to the woman at the well... That same living water is shown in the New heavens and new earth in Revelation.
Kat we are all on our own paths of understanding , I respect that you do not see what I see in this regard, what I do not believe is that Jesus has waved a magic wand 2000 years ago and everyone is now clean past tense, to me resurrection is about the deeds of the flesh our carnality (not the physical body) is being put to death - if we submit to this we are not hurt of the second death - that second death happens after our physical death -- if we do submit now we are passed from death to life, I believe that when we physically die we are raised and not hurt of the second death.
I believe that the scriptures do say that it is appointed to men once to die then judgment and depending on which death (death of carnality or physical death) there is judgment after death ......... what I am starting to think is that the judgment is the process of resurrection.
Remember the parable of the workers? The ones who worked all day received the same amount as those who had just started. Judgment on works happens here and now don't you think? Aren't you judged and condemned when you do the wrong thing? I would say that is similar to reaping in this life what you sow in this life.
yes .... but they still needed to work in the vinyard to get the reward penny.
I am submitting myself to judgment yes ..... but if I did not, there is plenty of scripture that says that there is wrath against all ungodliness and wickedness ---- Jesus said do his commandments believe what he said and you will be saved from wrath ........ it is just not eternal wrath.
yes .... but they still needed to work in the vinyard to get the reward penny.
I am submitting myself to judgment yes ..... but if I did not, there is plenty of scripture that says that there is wrath against all ungodliness and wickedness ---- Jesus said do his commandments believe what he said and you will be saved from wrath ........ it is just not eternal wrath.
I know they had to work.. those were wages not rewards but I think Jesus likened it to rewards in heaven by use of the parable..
Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
So I think though we may disagree on some things... the basis is the same.. right? I say it all culminated way back then and you may think it still future... either way it does happen.
I know they had to work.. those were wages not rewards but I think Jesus likened it to rewards in heaven by use of the parable..
Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
So I think though we may disagree on some things... the basis is the same.. right? I say it all culminated way back then and you may think it still future... either way it does happen.
I think individually and spiritually it is in SOME respects future -- obviously not everything ended 2000 years ago because we are still being born and dying.
Jesus IS and he was, and he will be --- to all of us .... but each in their own order........
Works do not save us --- but Grace is only given upon repentance -- I feel you are ignoring repentance. And repentance is tied to judgment, it comes after.
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Amen.
