2013 Election (Cincinnati, Kenwood, Ada: 2015, townhouses, inspector)

[progmac]

Originally Posted by CincyIU29

You can rehab as many buildings as you like, but the fact remains you can place a brand new shiny building in Avondale, no one will want or care unless the area is people want to be there. We have already invested millions in this project, cities from Stockholm to Minneapolis use this system, and it would help create interest in areas along its route as expands, and decreases the need for a car-centric city, creating a more urbane environment. All worthy goals in my opinion.

I maintain that the City's primary role is in the public sphere (in public rights-of-way). That is where a City can add value with innovative projects like the streetcar. Dumping money into rehabs...unless it is a whole lot of rehabs in a very concentrated area, any government money is a drop in the bucket. Private investment is what is needed on private property.

In short, public investment on public property. Private investment on private property.

[kjbrill]

Well Cincinnati has been its meeting and released the figures on the cost of cancelling the streetcar. The figure they came up with is $47 million. I would like to point out this omits a couple of significant items. First is the $44 million Federal Grant money which will be lost. I have to view this as also a cost to Cincinnati, pushing the total to $91 million. Second is the loss of additional private development in the area which the streetcar would bring. This is a guess, but based on the experiences of other cities far exceeds the direct cost to Cincinnati to complete the project.

Of course John Cranley immediately had to question the validity of the $47 million figure, saying he questioned the inputs. One thing he cannot question is the loss of the $44 million Federal Grant money. That is like throwing money down a sewer.

[progmac]

FWIW, lots of cities are having the same streetcar fight. The identical tone that has become normal around here is expressed in this post about the kansas city or in the comments of this post on the charlotte street car.

[restorationconsultant]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

One thing he cannot question is the loss of the $44 million Federal Grant money. That is like throwing money down a sewer.

No one on pro streetcar side wants to talk about the cost of operation. I think that is one area where, even if you are getting this pot-o-money from the Feds, at some point the city has to deal with day to day costs. Grant money is ultimately local federal tax dollars we sent to the IRS and sent out to the FEDS, going through layers of overhead and regulations, only to be redistributed back to cities at a lesser amount(because of the coverhead cost of the federal government)

Few remember this far back, but back in the 80's all cities wanted cute little trolly buses, tons of cities got them they were going to be the "be all, end all, ramp up development" tool and things will be great. Most of them are sitting in scrap yards. The only cities that actually have them stillm are cities that leveraged them not as primary transportation, but as tourism conveyances. OTR is a national historic district. I've never figured out the "logic" in putting what looks like a "bullet train" in a circa 1880 neighborhood.

We can get millions in HUD monies to throw more section 8 into our neighborhood (heard about choice neighborhoods?) We got millions in Ohio moving forward monies to do what? Demo houses (eliminate Blight). What does that really mean? Well ,we get money, we spend money (kkepinga few demo contractors wealthy who contribute to some local candidates ), we tear stuff down and we replace the 'blight' of a vacant house (that could have been restored) with the blight of a vacant lot that becomes an illegal dump site.

We get millions of CDBG (community development block grant) monies and most of it goes to demo property. We cant be a vital city if we bulldoze our housing opportunities.

My point is maybe its time to wean ourselves from the state and federal gravy train because one day its going to run out. Those cities that learn how to live within their means will attract businesses, those that dont, well they become Stockton or Detroit.

Just because someone will hand you some money doesn't necessarily mean you should take it. There are always strings attached and its never really free!

[unusualfire]

There is more than one budget in the city of Cincinnati. http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/finance...9E/showMeta/0/

Now the budget that has been running a deficit is the operating budget.

The streetcar is in the Capital budget.


How is that too hard to understand? If they can't afford 4 million a year how can they afford 333 million a year in the capital budget??????

[American Luxury]

Originally Posted by restorationconsultant

No one on pro streetcar side wants to talk about the cost of operation. I think that is one area where, even if you are getting this pot-o-money from the Feds, at some point the city has to deal with day to day costs. Grant money is ultimately local federal tax dollars we sent to the IRS and sent out to the FEDS, going through layers of overhead and regulations, only to be redistributed back to cities at a lesser amount(because of the coverhead cost of the federal government)

Few remember this far back, but back in the 80's all cities wanted cute little trolly buses, tons of cities got them they were going to be the "be all, end all, ramp up development" tool and things will be great. Most of them are sitting in scrap yards. The only cities that actually have them stillm are cities that leveraged them not as primary transportation, but as tourism conveyances. OTR is a national historic district. I've never figured out the "logic" in putting what looks like a "bullet train" in a circa 1880 neighborhood.

We can get millions in HUD monies to throw more section 8 into our neighborhood (heard about choice neighborhoods?) We got millions in Ohio moving forward monies to do what? Demo houses (eliminate Blight). What does that really mean? Well ,we get money, we spend money (kkepinga few demo contractors wealthy who contribute to some local candidates ), we tear stuff down and we replace the 'blight' of a vacant house (that could have been restored) with the blight of a vacant lot that becomes an illegal dump site.

We get millions of CDBG (community development block grant) monies and most of it goes to demo property. We cant be a vital city if we bulldoze our housing opportunities.

My point is maybe its time to wean ourselves from the state and federal gravy train because one day its going to run out. Those cities that learn how to live within their means will attract businesses, those that dont, well they become Stockton or Detroit.

Just because someone will hand you some money doesn't necessarily mean you should take it. There are always strings attached and its never really free!

What's funny is that Cranley wants to get those trolley buses going again and they would have the same day to day costs as the street car.

https://news.cincinnati.com/article/...S01/311190009/

[restorationconsultant]

Interesting thing about the trolley buses is that if you put out a request for bids the price will be lower. you can buy a 2014 T-57 Trolly bus for 149K.

But perhaps what the city should do is put out a request for proposals. In other words, lease/license the trolley routes to a private company. That way the city isn't out the up front expense.

Frankly, I think vintage style trolleys circulating OTR would be a lot more "tourist friendly" and I could see some of the suburbanites actually venture outside of the confines of Findlay market. Combine that with crosstown routes and it makes sense without breaking the bank.

What has always surprised me is some entrepenarial person hasn't bought a trolley bus to do architectural tours of Cincinnati leaving from Findlay market.

My point is WHY is city government the ONLY one who can do these things? Other cities have private companies running trolley routes and apparently they are making a living.

How about we investigate that idea and save even more money or maybe make some money?

[Mplsite]

You guys do realize that even if the streetcar goes forward that with Cranley as mayor it makes less sense to invest in a pro-urban vision in Cincinnati now that the city has 4 years of a mayor whose idea of transit-oriented development is 80s era trolley buses and highway interchanges.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by Mplsite

You guys do realize that even if the streetcar goes forward that with Cranley as mayor it makes less sense to invest in a pro-urban vision in Cincinnati now that the city has 4 years of a mayor whose idea of transit-oriented development is 80s era trolley buses and highway interchanges.

There you go again, trying to make an argument with logic. Don't you know that logic was tossed aside almost a month ago now.

[restorationconsultant]

Originally Posted by Mplsite

You guys do realize that even if the streetcar goes forward that with Cranley as mayor it makes less sense to invest in a pro-urban vision in Cincinnati now that the city has 4 years of a mayor whose idea of transit-oriented development is 80s era trolley buses and highway interchanges.

Actually from a small redeveloper side, I am more inclined to invest more in the coming years in my neighborhood Knox Hill (which is not in OTR) I have three projects in contruction, one starting soon and we are doing our first new construction build in 2014.

I am hopeful that we wont be so focused on one neighborhood that other neighborhoods can move forward and suceed.

I hoping that with this new council and mayor we see a city that worries a little more about budgets and bottom dollars. My big hope is that the city takes a hard look at its permitting system and its plethorah of inspectors runnig around a neighborhood. We have 4 different divisons of city government driving by the same properties. 1 for building permits, 1 for vacant houses, 1 for occupied houses and 1 whose job it is to deal with environmental issues.

You can have paperwork passed around between 4 different departments on a property . If a property goes from occupied to vacant you are dealing with a different inspector. You are pulling permits? That's another inspector.

I am hoping we bring some fiscal responsibility to our government and into the way we do things so we can reduce the size of government, eliminate duplications of functions and excercise some logic and encourage restoration and redevelopment. I really hope this council listens to community leaders more and city workers less who are more concerned about creating work to justify their existance, than what is BEST for neighborhoods. We have been SO CONSUMED with OTR for the last few years that we have ignored neighborhoods that frankly are getting things done, and just 'minor' assistance from the city would have huge impact on rebuilding our property tax base which has een in decline for years.

Having been a president of Neighborhood Association for four years and not once having an email to the mayors office reoplied to? I'm looking forward to a change.