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1. The fact that SF avg household incomes are ~10-15k higher is meaningless? (Especially when you also account for lower cost of living?) Pray tell, what figures do matter for economic health?
2. I think at least 80% of ppl would prefer SF weather over NYC weather. 60-75 and sunny almost everyday beats cold winters and scorching humid summers.
3. Much of NYC is smelly and dirty, certainly more so than SF
4. Density is a good thing, but parts of NYC and also the public transit systems are overcrowded; packed like sardines and slowed down by large crowds
5. The outer regions of SF are also cheaper. You compare any comparable areas of SF v NYC, SF is cheaper
6. (you concede the point)
7. dunno, NYC has a reputation (confirmed by just about anyone who lives there) as having meaner ppl on average. Of course, most ppl are fine and I'm sure even the "mean" ppl aren't bad ppl, but it's not regarded as a "friendly" place. No one talks about how "laidback" NYCers are (as they do about ppl in SF) or "NYC hospitality" (as they do about Chicago and parts of the South)
8. My point re tech v finance isn't stability, as much as public perception. Both are fairly volatile, but which industry is better thought of by the 90%+ of Americans who aren't part of these industries? There are never any "marches against tech companies" and the tech industry isnt constantly facing government investigations for fraud and other white collar crimes like Wall Street
And in all honesty, its far more imperative for our national economy that SV remain the global epicenter of tech than NY remaining the epicenter of finance.
Last edited by 18Montclair; 03-09-2013 at 09:42 PM..
But your contention was that pound for pound, NY is the most productive place in the nation and that is patently FALSE.
The Bay Area is the MOST productive pound for pound.
#knowledgeispower
Pound for pound, I'm probably a little more sick of Bay Area boosters than NYC boosters. Everything posted has been said more than numerous times in many different threads. I now just scan, because it's all so repetitive, so predictable, and so, so tiring.
But your contention was that pound for pound, NY is the most productive place in the nation and that is patently FALSE.
The Bay Area is the MOST productive pound for pound.
#knowledgeispower
No. Pound for pound, simply means best. Most diverse, resilient and influential economy in the nation is NYC.
If you want pound for pound to mean GDP per capita, it's still not SF. It's San Jose.
Anyway, this has nothing to due with the thread. I'll just re-iterate my main point and I'm done with this thread; both NYC and SF are great places to lives, just depends on what you're looking for and who you are.
The Bay Area directly touches hundreds of millions if not BILLIONS of people around the world everyday through technology, social media and the internet.
Bay Area companies account for trillions of dollars of investment. The only US region that supplants the Bay Area in this regard is NY, but its not by the margin it should be considering the tristate area has 3 times as many people as the bay.
Im so loving this. lol
What do you mean not anymore? Maybe if you condensed the tiers to the point where they're categorically useless, but otherwise I don't see what part you love about this aside from how happy you are to go on with incredibly weak arguments but an incredibly stroked ego. And yea, the tristate area does have three times the population and that plays at least some part in NYC towering over the Bay Area--why wouldn't having a huge metro population in a developed and modern country not be part of why a city is so powerful? Go ahead on the per capita basis, but considering overall power and influence means you take in the totality of everything rather than "oh it does well for its class." There's money in the Bay Area, that's true.
It's good that you had to bring this out to the Bay Area in total though--obviously, SF is a lot less central to the Bay Area as NYC is to the tri-state. The comparison is already so lopsided, so it's good you want to try to take the edge off a bit but it's still not close. If you want to stay with the cities comparison, SF goes quite a bit further down when it comes to the billionaires list and is obviously nowhere near NYC.
One great thing out of all this is how much better SF has been in pricing out people and doing a wonderfully progressive job of not finding a real solution. Great job there.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-09-2013 at 10:24 PM..
What do you mean not anymore? Are you honestly going to try to put SF above NYC (or even the Bay Area above NYC's metro) or in the same tier? Maybe if you condensed the tiers to the point where they're categorically useless, but otherwise I don't see what part you love about this aside from how happy you are to go on with incredibly weak arguments but an incredibly stroked ego. And yea, the tristate area does have three times the population and that plays at least some part in NYC towering over the Bay Area--why wouldn't having a huge metro population in a developed and modern country not be part of why a city is so powerful?
You said that the Bay Area is miniscule in clout and influence compared to New York and that is clearly inaccurate considering how the world basically hangs on Silicon Valley's every move.
In 2013, Facebook,, Google and YouTube reach more people on a daily basis than all NY-based media outlets COMBINED.
Food for thought.
If London supplanted NY as the world capital of finance, our loss would be nothing but a bruised ego, but if Bangalore or Beijing or Seoul ever supplanted Silicon Valley, that would represent a loss to our nation's competitive edge.
You said that the Bay Area is miniscule in clout and influence compared to New York and that is clearly inaccurate considering how the world basically hangs on Silicon Valley's every move.
In 2013, Facebook,, Google and YouTube reach more people on a daily basis than all NY-based media outlets COMBINED.
Food for thought.
If London supplanted NY as the world capital of finance, our loss would be nothing but a bruised ego, but if Bangalore or Beijing or Seoul ever supplanted Silicon Valley, that would represent a loss to our nation's competitive edge.
#reality
Reality is obviously on the side of NYC by any metric. What overall power are you talking about? Why would losing one mean more than losing the other? You have no measure to show this by at all and it exhibits some incredible myopia. You don't think we've seen the dramatic effects the financial institutions have had on the world in maybe the last five years or so? What of interest and value gets posted on Facebook? It's good as a distribution channel for personal information. It is powerful, but it's hard to chalk things up completely to the distribution channels unless you'd like to also consider telecom companies which are even closer to the metal and somehow even more important. You can go the other way to and talk about things that are actually distributed in the first place. Fashion? Cultural trends? Journalistic pieces? Advertising media? What city/metro do you think is generally on top of all this for the US?
Regardless, this is still one industry among many and the overall picture (all the other industries and possible avenues of influence/importance such as being host to a large number of NGOs, other sorts of organizations, and the UN headquarters) you have is of the Tri-State area being far more powerful than the Bay Area. You like compilations of global city measures and the like, right?
You're also losing sight of the fact that the tech industry is global and other cities have quickly grown their own tech industries while older stalwarts such as Tokyo, and to some extent NYC for the tri-state area with IBM, Bell Labs, and others, have maintained a strong position.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-09-2013 at 11:30 PM..
Reality is obviously on the side of NYC by any metric. What overall power are you talking about? Why would losing one mean more than losing the other? You have no measure to show this by at all and it exhibits some incredible myopia. You don't think we've seen the dramatic effects the financial institutions have had on the world in maybe the last five years or so? What of interest and value gets posted on Facebook? It's good as a distribution channel for personal information but part of the best use of social media is the distribution of news stories/articles from journalistic institutions. It is powerful, but to chalk things up completely to the distribution channels wouldn't make much sense either unless you want to consider telecom and utility companies to be even closer to the metal and somehow even more important. You can go the other way to and talk about things that are actually distributed in the first place. Fashion? Cultural trends? Journalistic pieces? Advertising media? What city/metro do you think is generally on top of all this for the US?
Regardless, this is still one industry among many and the overall picture you have is of the Tri-State area being far more powerful than the Bay Area. You like compilations of global city measures and the like, right?
You're also losing sight of the fact that the tech industry is global and other cities have quickly grown their own tech industries while older stalwarts such as Tokyo, and to some extent NYC for the tri-state area with IBM, Bell Labs, and others, have maintained a strong position.
And so, while New York has more clout and influence, sure, the Bay Area's clout and influence is hardly miniscule by comparison, not anymore. This is not the 1980s Oy.
This just adds to my point, that beneath the Bay Area's beautiful and carefree veneer is a region that is a driving force in the global economy. The best of all worlds for work and play.
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