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The problem with this thread is that the "big city" feel can be felt in many different ways.
A big city to me is not just a place that is busy, dense and vibrant with heavy pedestrian traffic (that is certainly part of it), but a big city to me is also an expansive urban footprint.
Take a look at San Francisco vs Los Angeles. Depending on how you define "big city" standards, I can see a case where both demonstrate more of a big city feel than the other. San Francisco > Los Angeles in the sense that it feels more of a dense, bustling city, with a pulse that is unrivaled in the west. Los Angeles > San Francisco in the sense that it's urban footprint is extremely vast, giving the impression that Los Angeles is this enormous, vast metropolis that never seems to end (which is true).
The "big city" feel be felt in many different ways, and I don't think it should be a matter of black and white statements, as in the case with Los Angeles and San Francisco. Both feel bigger than the other.
I put LA tied with New York and I stand by that without any hesitation whatsoever. There is a vibe one gets in LA that is not to be found anywhere else in the US except New York, its auto-oriented nature notwithstanding.
It has something to do with 18 Million people living together. They might not all be walking but it still feels enormous, busy, agitated, far more enormous and 'BIG CITY' than all other places except once again, New York.
Different but equal imo.
I don't think it is equal. I think New York is clearly #1.
The reason I feel that way is because although Los Angeles is the densest urban area in the nation, a deeper look at their urban build-up clears some things up that favors New York.
If you were to draw a 600 square miles around New York City...you'd end up with about 11 million people. Seeing this, I make a point that New York's dense core fits more people in a smaller area than the entire Los Angeles urban area (or at least for the most part). However, outside this dense urbanized core....you have vast networks of east coast suburbs that bring NYC's urban population to a total of 18.8 million, dropping its overall density very significantly. These suburbs may not make NY feel more urban (east coast suburbs are generally not dense), but it certainly adds to the vastness of NY's area (which I would say is already vast with the dense core of NY-Northern NJ alone, let alone the huge networks of suburbs around it). So to say that LA urban area feels more "big city" than the NY area due to higher urban area density is pretty misleading, to say the least. I know you didn't say that, but I made my point there.
Los Angeles is dense, but that is because it's urban area is small compared to NYC. If you were to cut out the low density suburbs out of the NY area, the NY-Northern NJ dense urbanized sprawl can still go head to head with LA, and in my opinion, still beating it in terms of big city feel). So don't let the low density suburbs in Long Island, Connecticut and New Jersey fool you. They just merely surround a very large, urban and dense core of over 10 million people (probably even more than that).
Last edited by Libohove90; 08-27-2011 at 08:57 PM..
The problem with this thread is that the "big city" feel can be felt in many different ways.
A big city to me is not just a place that is busy, dense and vibrant with heavy pedestrian traffic (that is certainly part of it), but a big city to me is also an expansive urban footprint.
Take a look at San Francisco vs Los Angeles. Depending on how you define "big city" standards, I can see a case where both demonstrate more of a big city feel than the other. San Francisco > Los Angeles in the sense that it feels more of a dense, bustling city, with a pulse that is unrivaled in the west. Los Angeles > San Francisco in the sense that it's urban footprint is extremely vast, giving the impression that Los Angeles is this enormous, vast metropolis that never seems to end (which is true).
The "big city" feel be felt in many different ways, and I don't think it should be a matter of black and white statements, as in the case with Los Angeles and San Francisco. Both feel bigger than the other.
The odd thing about this question is most of these cities have similar congestion, some type of major mass transportation, pedestrian activity, urbanity, etc. The challenge is none of them sustain it for 24 hrs except NYC. Chicago is the only one that is commonly listed that is a 21 hour city. This pertains to a 7 day week starting at 6am to be fair. With that being said, the others that are being consistetly mentioned is because of a personal preference of basically which one 'you' like the most. Having lived in Manhattan, Atlanta and Chicago makes me a little bias because I can vouch for my statements. Having visited LA, SF, BOS, PHI, DC, MIA, NO, DEN, HOU, DAL I will go on record saying all of them can be shuffled 3 to 10. Some have more advanced public transportation (boston, philly, dc and san fran). Some have more freeway congestion (hou, atl, dal, la). But at the end of the day, it's all opinionated and I love reading everyone's rationale. First, I will throw a curveball, New Orleans (French Quarter), Vegas (Strip), Miami (South Beach) are the only places in the country that can rival NY or even beat NY from midnight til 6am. From 6am until midnight none of the cities in this country can survive. NY does lose out to Paris, Tokyo and Hong Kong during the day on shear numbers, density, transportation infrastructure, etc. I will rank according to my clear-cut nominations, followed by cities that are similar in infrastructure and size and could either one occupy the spot.
NYC
CHI
DC
PHI/BOS
LA
DAL/HOU
ATL/MIA
DEN/SEA
BAL/DET
NO/STL
From personal experience, these are the cities that had the most "big city" feel to me:
1. New York: clear winner. It has the density, the activity, the tall buildings, etc.
2. Chicago: clear number two: It has tons of density, activity and tall buildings, just not as much as NYC. Also you can see the dense neighborhoods spreading out for miles and miles from downtown.
3. LA: a bit sprawly, but felt massive and there were a ton of people.
4. Philly: a good combo of all the needed ingredients.
5. San Francisco: very dense and active with some tall skycrapers, but the area is smaller, didn't feel as big to me
6. DC: Doesn't have the tall buildings, but it is very dense. downtown dies a bit at night, but there are several neighborhoods (Adams-Morgan, Georgetown, Capitol Hill, U-Street) that stay active. The district itself is pretty small, but some of the Va and Md suburbs are developed enough that they add to the urban feeling.
After that it gets tricky, I'm not sure what feels bigger between (1) cities with large populations that are more spread out (like Atlanta & Dallas) or (2) cities that feel dense and urban but are not as big (Baltimore, St. Louis, maybe even New Orleans). TBH, I'm not sure any of them really give that "big city" feeling the way the first six do (especially NYC and Chi). I've never been to Boston, Houston or Seattle, so I can't say about them...
Actual big city feel is how people interact with city
* *
I am a native Philadelphian who now resides outside of DC. Who has traveled to Pheonix, *Dallas, Kansas City, DC, Boston, Baltimore, Cleveland, Milwalkee, Pittsburgh, *Chicago, New York City and Miami. I have also traveled to Denver and Atlanta but, I never set foot outside of the airport.*
What I have noticed regarding the big city feel issue is this.........New York is massive extremely urban and un matched.....and I,m not just talking about manhattan.....the boroughs outside of manhattan are more urban than most other city's downtowns..,,,...Chicago comes in next in line then Philadelphia and Boston. *I have never been to San Francisco so I cannot comment, although the photos that I have seen are impressive. I have also never been to LA, Houston, Seattle or New Orleans, so I cannot comment about them.*
Of the cities that I have visited I will say this, driving downtown to Chicago from the north next to the El reminds mr of philly...yes chicago's skyline is larger than Philly's but the mass of the midrise apartment buildings, the el train, factories, neighborhoods, schools churches and crumbling older infrastructure with grafitti sprayed about reminds me of Philly...In Boston the mass of the older highrise buildings downtown, people and subway station kiosks every few blocks also reminded me of Philly........
I am sorry to say that out of my travels only New York, Chicago Philly and Boston fealt large to me because *those cities feel large both downtown and within their residential neighborhoods. In Philly outside of downtown, it feels large, urban and is unmatched outside of the other big three cities mentioned.
*I do not think that most people from outside of the four cities mentioned understand what someone from these cities mean when they say that a city feels large. * When I say that a city feels large it has large busy streets ( not highways throughout the city , you see the multitude of houses (not single family detatched) and * *Apartment buildings *that house the multitude of people, you see the multitude of schools churches and hospitals and stores that serve the multitude of people. You see multiple modes of mass transit throughout the city, you see massive amounts of urban infra structure (multiple bridges, tunnels, and via ducts throughout the city. You hear sirens, see television news vans interviewing people, the homeless, super heroes, seeing eye dogs, mimes, strikes, demonstrations, foriegn sailors walking around In thier foriegn uniforms, nuns, schoolkids, tourists and cops walking around in groups of at least 3. In big cities you see subway and commuter train railyards in residential neigborhoods, *with 100 trains parked. You see bus, trolley and trackless trolley (trolley bus) stock yards in residential neiborhoods with 100 buses, trolleys and trackless trolleys**parked.*
In large cities you have subways, els, commeter trains and buses that operate express services and alternate routes. *Visiting New York, Chicago and Boston And growing up in Philly, I have seen these things that make a city feel large.
Growing up in Philly, I went to a 5 story elementary school and an 8 story highschool with basketball courts and playgrounds *on the roof *(which was not among the largest higjschools in the city). From grades 7 through 12 i took a trolley, a subway and another bus to get to school, as did many other students that decided not to go to their nearest neighborhood highschool. I could *buy subway tokens in the lunchroom. I had 2 police officers stationed within my highschool. My brother's highschool which was larger than mine * had 7 lunchrooms.
In large cities the feeling of largeness is more than what a tourist feels while driving around the perimeter beltway of the city looking into the city from afar and counting the number of *taco bells between exits *on the highway......if you want to measure wether a city feels large or not .,.,,,,look at the lives of the people that live within the city and see how they interact with the city on a daily basis. *
The odd thing about this question is most of these cities have similar congestion, some type of major mass transportation, pedestrian activity, urbanity, etc. The challenge is none of them sustain it for 24 hrs except NYC. Chicago is the only one that is commonly listed that is a 21 hour city. This pertains to a 7 day week starting at 6am to be fair. With that being said, the others that are being consistetly mentioned is because of a personal preference of basically which one 'you' like the most. Having lived in Manhattan, Atlanta and Chicago makes me a little bias because I can vouch for my statements. Having visited LA, SF, BOS, PHI, DC, MIA, NO, DEN, HOU, DAL I will go on record saying all of them can be shuffled 3 to 10. Some have more advanced public transportation (boston, philly, dc and san fran). Some have more freeway congestion (hou, atl, dal, la). But at the end of the day, it's all opinionated and I love reading everyone's rationale. First, I will throw a curveball, New Orleans (French Quarter), Vegas (Strip), Miami (South Beach) are the only places in the country that can rival NY or even beat NY from midnight til 6am. From 6am until midnight none of the cities in this country can survive. NY does lose out to Paris, Tokyo and Hong Kong during the day on shear numbers, density, transportation infrastructure, etc. I will rank according to my clear-cut nominations, followed by cities that are similar in infrastructure and size and could either one occupy the spot.
NYC
CHI
DC
PHI/BOS
LA
DAL/HOU
ATL/MIA
DEN/SEA
BAL/DET
NO/STL
Pretty much agree with your sentiments completely (however, I certainly would not put DC ahead of Philadelphia and not SF-- I'm guessing that was an honest omission). But for the most part, you hit the nail on the head.
Zoomed in a bit and cleaned up SF as it looked a little bigger than it should cause of the Bay....I hear ya on Providence & Miami Shawn(too lazy right now tho. LOL)
Once again, not exact, but interesting To Scale Maps:
__________________
Zoomed in a bit and cleaned up SF as it looked a little bigger than it should cause of the Bay....I hear ya on Providence & Miami Shawn(too lazy right now tho. LOL)
Once again, not exact, but interesting To Scale Maps:
__________________
lol, compare that to your original list. any changes???
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair
As far as how spread out their CSAs felt in my experience: 1-tied Los Angeles 1-tied New York
8-tied Atlanta 8-tied Detroit 8-tied Houston 8-tied Miami 8-tied Philadelphia
let me help, look at your 3rd map and your 6th map.
why do you think the 6th is bigger than the 3rd??
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Actual big city feel is how people interact with city
