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I no longer live in the area so these videos bring back memories of my formative years growing up in the city...I haven't taken a train ride in 8 years.....Next time I am in town I will take my kid to see.....
agree on the Red and Blue, a pain and the green line in the tunnel is just painfully slow and load and snakes through at slower than walking speed, good news is they funnel people tow where the jobs are from where the people live so in the end even antiquated it works well. Better then the Philly green lines which slow to street speed mostly outside of the subway portions from U City to CC.
Philly to your point above may have the most underutilized volume based on ceverage and connectivity, much to do with headways though does need more HR
the BSL was built to handle more trunks that were never built and runs 4 tracks like NYC 7th ave lines for much of its route. A real missed opportunity there and the RR coverage is great but the headways suck outide of rush hour
Philly need to run the Blvd extensiion of the BSL and extend to the Navy yard; I also believe a Norristown line coverted to HR and extended to KOP and a West Chestnut Hill line converted to HR all trunked in the BSL would be an amazing improvement. Also the Patco should have run to U City (the tunnel extends to RS today but ends at Broad. The NSHSL HR is a waste mostly and the KOP extension of thi to me is mostly wasted money a two seat ride to the MFL (Blue) line is show stopper in IMHO
so many cities could do better
All great proposals. But do you think the Regional Rail could be upgraded to an RER/S-Bahn type operation? From my small knowledge of those European systems they too, like Philly, were originally electrified, single-terminal, 1-ride in, 1-ride out commuter rail lines that were unified by a connecting tunnel, not unlike Philly's 1983 CC tunnel. The problem seems to be that, whereas the European cities upgraded their systems to rapid-transit like systems (lighter trains, no-conductors/POP, frequent service through upgraded signaling systems, raised platforms throughout, Philly simply kept it's ancient-style commuter system with only minor upgrades through some line linkages through the tunnel (and even there, SEPTA seemed to lazy and unwilling to keep up the numbering system.
All great proposals. But do you think the Regional Rail could be upgraded to an RER/S-Bahn type operation? From my small knowledge of those European systems they too, like Philly, were originally electrified, single-terminal, 1-ride in, 1-ride out commuter rail lines that were unified by a connecting tunnel, not unlike Philly's 1983 CC tunnel. The problem seems to be that, whereas the European cities upgraded their systems to rapid-transit like systems (lighter trains, no-conductors/POP, frequent service through upgraded signaling systems, raised platforms throughout, Philly simply kept it's ancient-style commuter system with only minor upgrades through some line linkages through the tunnel (and even there, SEPTA seemed to lazy and unwilling to keep up the numbering system.
From what I've read, there are a lot of federal regulations regarding passenger trains sharing trackage with freight trains that add a lot of issues and regulations which are generally unnecessary. These can conceivably be solved, but there isn't really the political will to do so and it's not something SEPTA alone can solve. It's something that would take an overhaul on a much higher level.
Through-running rather than terminal stations and allowing for a S-Bahn/RER system would probably do wonders for the transit systems for some of these cities. Besides Regional Rail for Philadelphia, there's the North-South Station Commuter Rail Link in Boston which if done and then implemented as a S-Bahn (and probably one in-fill station between) would probably give Boston the best transit system in the US outside of NYC since MBTA has so many commuter rail lines that radiate outwardly from all directions. It'd also be a huge boon for regional and national rail networks as it'd allow for direct pass-through for longer haul passenger trains from areas south of Boston to areas north of Boston.
New York City would also benefit heavily from this kind of system, but to really create an effective S-Bahn/RER system, NYC would have to go through the pretty much intractable process of forcing LIRR/Metro-North/New Jersey Transit to work together or merge their operations and to retrofit tracks and rolling stock to a single standard.
Chicago has a ridiculous number of termini. It'd be great if at least the lines running in the west loop were all connected and through-running as S-Bahn services.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 12-07-2015 at 08:38 PM..
I really cant see how anyone can SEPTA is one of the worst. Last time I checked "ALL" Public Transit agencies have some kinks in them. People fail to realize that. Someone mentioned about DC Metro having more coverage in the suburbs , I'm not sure if they meant distance from the city core, or more stations. If its stations , and distance from city core SEPTA does a great job I mean come on...when the commuter rail goes into two other states is that poor coverage ? and when it goes 33+Miles from the city core ?. I'm a SEPTA /Public transit geek...Philly has five subways.
MFL , BSL, Broad-Ridge Spur, PATCO, SUBWAY-SURFACE LINES (someone said the trolleys don't qualify to be a subway, well obviously they do if they run in the subway and SEPTA calls them a "Subway -Surface" for a reason). Far as I'm concerned SEPTA covers a lot and gets you to point A - B a whole lot better then other cities. And with other cities who are just building light rail lines and giving them tunnels those cities consider it a subway, so no one should not being the trolleys here is not in a subway. I don't see SEPTA poorly serving the area. SEPTA was more extensive 30 years ago, and even with less it still is.
If anything I think SEPTA has some of the best connections with its services then some of the other citites.
i didnt vote in this poll because i have only been in the northeast cities and they were all fairly passable.
the last page and a half is about why so many voting for philly so heres my take:
re philly: for my limited time in philly i found it difficult to get from anywhere not on broad street (main north-south street) or market street (main east-west street) especially in the cold.
buses are more frequent than i feel in other cities (but again your waiting in the cold/rain/snow); subways seem to be less frequent (maybe because of the division of express track/local track/spur track mentioned above).
its expensive (why do i need to buy round-trip tokens -- why dont they upgrade to a card/ticket system like everyone else ?).
never taken the patco; never had a need. is it logistically connected to the rest of septa (do i have to leave a station to get to it; is it rapid transit ?; i always thought of it as nj transit/regional rail).
the trolleys: are they logistically rapid transit ?
(e.g.- half of the green-line in boston is underground and you pay at the station and go thru a turn-style; then it branches off into 4 surface lines which you have to wait for each individual to pay at the front of the trolley. sometimes you have to wait 10 minutes just to get on at popular stops (sometimes the t-pass takes several swipes to register/exact change/...). also it stops for pedestrians, traffic lites).
i think brt (silver line buses) qualifies as rapid transit subway. i've never taken it but i think most of it is underground so no pedestrians/traffic lites and you pay at stations so no bottleneck of passengers holding up the line while entering (it pulls into a platform with multiple points of egress).
Last edited by stanley-88888888; 12-08-2015 at 08:40 AM..
i didnt vote in this poll because i have only been in the northeast cities and they were all fairly passable.
the last page and a half is about why so many voting for philly so heres my take:
re philly: for my limited time in philly i found it difficult to get from anywhere not on broad street (main north-south street) or market street (main east-west street) especially in the cold.
buses are more frequent than i feel in other cities (but again your waiting in the cold/rain/snow); subways seem to be less frequent (maybe because of the division of express track/local track/spur track mentioned above).
its expensive (why do i need to buy round-trip tokens -- why dont they upgrade to a card/ticket system like everyone else ?).
never taken the patco; never had a need. is it logistically connected to the rest of septa (do i have to leave a station to get to it; is it rapid transit ?).
the trolleys: are they logistically rapid transit (e.g.- half of the green-line in boston is underground and you pay at the station and go thru a turn-style; then it branches off into 4 surface lines which you have to wait for each individual to pay at the front of the trolley and you have to wait 10 minutes just to get on at popular stops (sometimes the t-pass takes several swipes to register/exact change/...). also it stops for pedestrians, traffic lites).
i think brt (silver line buses) qualifies as rapid transit subway. i've never taken it but i think most of it is underground so no pedestrians/traffic lites and you pay at stations so no bottleneck of passengers holding up the line while entering (it pulls into a platform with multiple points of egress).
I'm a little confused with your post
Buses are more frequent than other cities or not as frequent as others ?
What was your waiting time for the subway ? day, am-pm rush hour ?
Expensive ? ($2.25 is a base fare most transit authorities have...and if not more then $2.25) , How many tokens did you buy and was it forced ?
Trolleys : Boston/SEPTA are very similar in this regard. SEPTA just doesn't have faregates at all of its trolley stops in the tunnel (except for 13th/15/30th St via the EL)
And what was so difficult about getting anywhere that wasn't on broad st . or market ?
SEPTA is in the process and final stages of testing the their new fare card system "SEPTA KEY" which will be a open payment system.
I do agree with you on all transit authorities being passable , all of them have their kinks in them.
^ this is like 10 years ago.
i feel buses are more frequent in philly than boston, nyc and dc (the only other cities i can really compare); only philly and dc have accordion buses.
i didnt time it but it felt approx 20 minutes am/pm work rush. other cities felt more like waiting for an elevator.
getting from places like st. joes or northeast philly is kinda' hard without a car.
maybe i'm old but you had to buy a little baggie of 2 tokens from various places that sold septa tokens. i think it cost like 3.15 back then. the t was about a buck during that time. i forget.
buses used to be considered trains since they also cost a token (or you can get a transfer for .45 cents more).
Last edited by stanley-88888888; 12-08-2015 at 09:26 AM..
Reason: changed lower marion to st. joes because i think its more challenging <@:)
From what I've read, there are a lot of federal regulations regarding passenger trains sharing trackage with freight trains that add a lot of issues and regulations which are generally unnecessary. These can conceivably be solved, but there isn't really the political will to do so and it's not something SEPTA alone can solve. It's something that would take an overhaul on a much higher level.
Through-running rather than terminal stations and allowing for a S-Bahn/RER system would probably do wonders for the transit systems for some of these cities. Besides Regional Rail for Philadelphia, there's the North-South Station Commuter Rail Link in Boston which if done and then implemented as a S-Bahn (and probably one in-fill station between) would probably give Boston the best transit system in the US outside of NYC since MBTA has so many commuter rail lines that radiate outwardly from all directions. It'd also be a huge boon for regional and national rail networks as it'd allow for direct pass-through for longer haul passenger trains from areas south of Boston to areas north of Boston.
New York City would also benefit heavily from this kind of system, but to really create an effective S-Bahn/RER system, NYC would have to go through the pretty much intractable process of forcing LIRR/Metro-North/New Jersey Transit to work together or merge their operations and to retrofit tracks and rolling stock to a single standard.
Chicago has a ridiculous number of termini. It'd be great if at least the lines running in the west loop were all connected and through-running as S-Bahn services.
I'm not an expert on the railroad/local passenger train regs. I do know that commuter cars sharing freight corridors must meet crash standards, meaning they must be heavier with stronger reinforced walls and windows. SEPTA's commuter cars meet this standard. Of SEPTA's 13 commuter lines, only a few of them (and only portions of those few) share trackage with mainline freight runs, and those are primarily the 3 Amtrak routes (Trenton, Wilmington/Newark, DE and the outer-most portion of the Thorndale line). Philly has long segregated the services.
Boston's T commuter system actually carries more passengers than SEPTA's regional rail, despite metro Philly being larger than metro Boston and with Philly's system being fully electrified and connected by the Center City tunnel, while Boston's is all diesel serving the North and South station stubs. If the through connecting tunnel was built to connect North and South stations, I would think the entire network would need to be electrified. So far, only the Providence line is electrified with the Acela trains, but T trains are all diesel running under the wires.
I think Chicago would greatly benefit from electrifying its full commuter network connected to, and compatible with, the Metra electric line to the south side suburbs (plus, of course, the historic South Bend interurban). Metra's mainly diesel operates as traditional suburban commuter rail lines with some in-city stations, whereas Metra Electric is rapid-transit like, with mostly in-city stations very closely-spaced and bundled services along the trunk line producing very frequent headways.
^ this is like 10 years ago.
i feel buses are more frequent in philly than boston, nyc and dc (the only other cities i can really compare); only philly and dc have accordion buses.
NYC has much heavier bus ridership than Philly (or Boston or DC) even per capita. The busiest NYC bus lines have higher ridership than many subway lines outside of NYC.
NYC has much heavier bus ridership than Philly (or Boston or DC) even per capita. The busiest NYC bus lines have higher ridership than many subway lines outside of NYC.
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