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Had to create a new account. However, I would like for summers (or anyone) to explain why philly is tiers ahead of Atlanta citywise. The argument seemed to be predicated on size, but then I mentioned that Charlotte, Columbus and Jacksonville were larger than Miami and DC. This is why it is quite misleading to compare city limit population.
Except Charlotte, Columbus and Jacksonville all have much larger city limits than Miami and DC. You're not looking at the full picture. Philly and Atlanta have the same city limit square miles yet Philly has nearly 1.2 million people more in the city limits. Philly is so much denser and built out. It's what you would expect a city to look and feel like where most of ATL is sprawling suburbs connecting a few urban nodes. Very little in the way of urbanity or walk-ability. So yes, the city of Philadelphia I would argue is multiple tiers above the city of Atlanta in most aspects.
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All a measurement of a city limit is how many people reside in a city. Now, of course, this impacts life in that city. However, in cities like Atlanta they daytime population is heavily influenced by metro number. Metro Philly and Atlanta are about the same size and same tier. Why is this so hard to stomach?
Metro ATL and Metro Philly are similarly sized but Philly is still larger in population and a larger GDP. Daytime population Philly is still MUCH higher. ATL has a city population of 400k which means it's daytime population is in no way no higher than 700k. Philly has a city population of nearly 1.6mill with a day time population reaching 2mill.
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Are we really going to say Philly is a tier above Atl because more people sleep within the city limits and in Atlanta they sleep in the immediate suburbs? It makes no sense to me.whether or not these people reside in or out out of the city limits, I'd say their daily workings causally involve/economically impact the city to the same extent.
Would anyone agree that Atlanta and Philly are practically the same size?
They are similarly sized but Philly is still just a few notches higher.
Philadelphia is a big, small city. Compared to Atlanta, many more residents were born in the area and it's a lot less transient. So even though it has a large population, I feel as though where you went to high school and where you grew up in the region makes a big difference to employers, etc.
Atlanta is a bit more like DC, imo. You have a lot of people who aren't from there and thus it feels more "open" in a sense.
Philadelphia is a big, small city. Compared to Atlanta, many more residents were born in the area and it's a lot less transient. So even though it has a large population, I feel as though where you went to high school and where you grew up in the region makes a big difference to employers, etc.
Atlanta is a bit more like DC, imo. You have a lot of people who aren't from there and thus it feels more "open" in a sense.
While this is generally true, I think the more "static" nature of the Philly area is definitely changing -- it is drawing much more new blood than it has in recent history. Much of this, of course, is people from adjacent major metros in the Northeast Corridor being attracted to a relatively lower cost-of-living, but -- as one of the America's few, large urban legacy cities (especially considering the societal shift that is once again valuing walkability, urbanism and unique "sense of place") -- Philadelphia is definitely much more on the national and international radar now.
At any rate, while non-natives are not nearly as common in Philly as in DC and Atlanta, there is still a significant and growing cadre of transplants (particularly among the young adult population).
The Philadelphia metro area is not much bigger today than it was in 1970. Since that time, it's only grown by about 700,000 people. During that same period, Metro Atlanta has grown by about 3.4 million people.
Not saying one is better or worse. It's just a different type of vibe you're going to get from both cities. In Philly, you're going to meet a lot of people who were born there, their parents were born there, still live there, never left there, etc. In Atlanta, you meet so many people that aren't from there, and that creates a type of openness that Philadelphia often lacks.
^Yeah but I bet many of those 3.6 Million Atlanta transplants were from the Philly area. It's not like Philly has only gained 700,000 outsiders since 1970. People move to and from Metros all the time but it's a testament to remain such a large one-regardless if it is transplant/economic fueled growth or not. I don't have much experience with Atlanta but would probably agree on the openness thing.
^Yeah but I bet many of those 3.6 Million Atlanta transplants were from the Philly area. People move to and from Metros all the time but it's a testament to remain such a large one-regardless if it is transplant/economic fueled growth or not. I don't have much experience with Atlanta but would probably agree on the openness thing.
Atlanta's last mayor was a Philly native (Girls High, stand up).
^Yeah but I bet many of those 3.6 Million Atlanta transplants were from the Philly area. It's not like Philly has only gained 700,000 outsiders since 1970. People move to and from Metros all the time but it's a testament to remain such a large one-regardless if it is transplant/economic fueled growth or not. I don't have much experience with Atlanta but would probably agree on the openness thing.
Exactly. In fact, it's important to note that, in the present day, growth in the Philly region is almost exclusively a result of newcomers.
The net plus of immigrants is what is allowing Philadelphia to grow in terms of off-setting domestic out-migration. This is very similar to other more established urban areas like New York, Chicago, and to a lesser extent, Boston (which has very even levels of in/out-migration domestically).
Basically, even if an urban area isn't growing super fast, that does not mean there isn't a lot of population "churn" going on. It just means that it's reached a more mature level of growth.
Basically, even if an urban area isn't growing super fast, that does not mean there isn't a lot of population "churn" going on. It just means that it's reached a more mature level of growth.
I calculated these numbers a few weeks back. These are for counties/city limits only. It would take a bit more time to do it for metros.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Arlington, VA (25,523 outmigrants/12.6%)
Alexandria, VA (16,927 outmigrants/12.3%)
Washington, DC (56,349 outmigrants/9.8%)
Suffolk County, MA (60,031 outmigrants/8.4%)
San Francisco, CA (61,028 outmigrants/7.6%)
Manhattan, NY (113,162 outmigrants/7.1%)
Travis County, TX (65,533 outmigrants/6.5%)
Montgomery County, MD (54,828 outmigrants/5.7%)
Alameda County, CA (81,033 outmigrants/5.4%)
Middlesex County, MA (80,431 outmigrants/5.4%)
King County, WA (101,445 outmigrants/5.3%)
Brooklyn, NY (116,811 outmigrants/4.7%) Philadelphia, PA (68,228 outmigrants/4.5%)
Cuyahoga County, OH (52,304 outmigrants/4.0%)
Not as much population churn in the city itself.
Edit...
Montgomery County, PA (38,439 outmigrants/4.7%)
Last edited by BajanYankee; 06-06-2014 at 03:50 PM..
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