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I've been to both cities quite a few times and visited most of bigger major cities in the US at least once so I think I should contribute:
1) Economy:
The gross metropolitan product (GMP) output of St. Louis ($133 Billion) is higher than that of Cleveland ($106 Billion). Historically, St. Louis has had a much more diversified economy. It has always been a major transportation hub as one of the largest inland ports and railroad hub. It was also a major airline hub as home base of Trans World Airlines and McDonnel Douglas back in the day and may become one again with the massive expansion of Southwest here in the last few years. Defense, airplane, and car manufacturing still have a major presences in this area. Recently, St. Louis has also become a banking hub as home to Wells Fargo Advisors, Scottrade, and Edward Jones. St. Louis also home to a major agricultural/food industry as home to Monsanto and Nestle/Purina. Interestingly, energy is a major part of the St. Louis economy as home to Peabody, the largest coal company in the world. Almost all of the sand used in the fracking boom is also mined from around the St. Louis area.
Notably, one of Cleveland's great strengths is the medical institution of the Cleveland Clinic (ranked #4). However, St. Louis has another one of the world's great medical centers in Barnes-Jewish Hospital (ranked #6). Medical technology and biotech are both major contributiors to the economy of both cities.
2) Demographics:
The St. Louis has a metro population of around 2.9 million while Cleveland has around 2.1 million. St. Louis metro has been slowly growing over time and has never declined while Cleveland has had some declines.
3) Transportation:
I think St. Louis wins this hands down with its light rail system. RTA has a daily ridership of 11k, while St. Louis Metrolink has a daily ridership of 52k.
4) Downtowns:
Cleveland's downtown has recovered very well in recent years while St. Louis still has a ways to go. St. Louis has multiple hubs of activity in its neighborhoods, which I consider to be much stronger than the downtown. The culture is different here in that people rarely go downtown for things other than work or sports events. With the increase in residential units downtown, I hope that changes going forward.
5) Education:
WashU (#14) is ranked higher than Case Western (#37), and WashU's med school (#6) was ranked as high as #2 not so long ago. Both cities could benefit a lot from a major flagship state school located within the city. Imagine how game changing it would be if Mizzou (34k students) was located in St. Louis or Ohio State (56k students) was located in Cleveland? Unfortunately, that will never happen.
6) Cultural centers:
I think both Cleveland and St. Louis have great cultural and sports institutions that continue to provide a lot of strength. However, I think Cleveland tends to be eclipsed by the other major surrounding metros like Detroit or Pittsburgh. St. Louis is seen as a major center halfway up Illinois, into Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and through Kansas and thus has a much bigger "catchment basin" Its only competition historically has been with Chicago, which historically has also been a competitor city of Cleveland. Chicago won both battles.
St. Louis is much much older than most cities in the interior (STL was 73 years old when Chicago was founded) and was imagined by its founders as THE major inland city of the US, something akin to a Paris or Berlin of North America. While it hasn't quite lived up to those expectations, I still see a lot of potental for this city going forward.
Agreed. While St. Louis's growth has been slow, it has been steady and is picking up speed. While the bulk of the growth is still in the suburbs, there are now 500 people moving into downtown STL each year. In the last decade, downtown has added up to 15,000 people and the occupancy rate of available housing is more than 80%. More developments are starting, to keep up with demand. Add to that the many recent announcements of new companies and jobs coming to town. A technology campus in a once degraded part of the city is attracting several companies that are bringing hundreds, if not thousands of jobs, and that is only one project. Charter communications just announced it is building a massive call center on the north side that will employ up to 800 full time workers. St. Louis has taken a lot of licks over the years, so it's nice to see this grand old city start to move up again.
Agreed. While St. Louis's growth has been slow, it has been steady and is picking up speed. While the bulk of the growth is still in the suburbs, there are now 500 people moving into downtown STL each year. In the last decade, downtown has added up to 15,000 people and the occupancy rate of available housing is more than 80%. More developments are starting, to keep up with demand. Add to that the many recent announcements of new companies and jobs coming to town. A technology campus in a once degraded part of the city is attracting several companies that are bringing hundreds, if not thousands of jobs, and that is only one project. Charter communications just announced it is building a massive call center on the north side that will employ up to 800 full time workers. St. Louis has taken a lot of licks over the years, so it's nice to see this grand old city start to move up again.
New call center on the Northside? I can't imagine where that's going to be.
I'd argue St. Louis. Cleveland as a whole seems to have been hit a lot harder than STL by the Rust Belt effect.
St. Louis has seen the largest decline of population than any other city (-62%) so I don't know why you would think Cleveland has been hit a lot harder than STL by the rust belt "effect".
I've been to both cities quite a few times and visited most of bigger major cities in the US at least once so I think I should contribute:
1) Economy:
The gross metropolitan product (GMP) output of St. Louis ($133 Billion) is higher than that of Cleveland ($106 Billion). Historically, St. Louis has had a much more diversified economy. It has always been a major transportation hub as one of the largest inland ports and railroad hub. It was also a major airline hub as home base of Trans World Airlines and McDonnel Douglas back in the day and may become one again with the massive expansion of Southwest here in the last few years. Defense, airplane, and car manufacturing still have a major presences in this area. Recently, St. Louis has also become a banking hub as home to Wells Fargo Advisors, Scottrade, and Edward Jones. St. Louis also home to a major agricultural/food industry as home to Monsanto and Nestle/Purina. Interestingly, energy is a major part of the St. Louis economy as home to Peabody, the largest coal company in the world. Almost all of the sand used in the fracking boom is also mined from around the St. Louis area.
Notably, one of Cleveland's great strengths is the medical institution of the Cleveland Clinic (ranked #4). However, St. Louis has another one of the world's great medical centers in Barnes-Jewish Hospital (ranked #6). Medical technology and biotech are both major contributiors to the economy of both cities.
2) Demographics:
The St. Louis has a metro population of around 2.9 million while Cleveland has around 2.1 million. St. Louis metro has been slowly growing over time and has never declined while Cleveland has had some declines.
3) Transportation:
I think St. Louis wins this hands down with its light rail system. RTA has a daily ridership of 11k, while St. Louis Metrolink has a daily ridership of 52k.
4) Downtowns:
Cleveland's downtown has recovered very well in recent years while St. Louis still has a ways to go. St. Louis has multiple hubs of activity in its neighborhoods, which I consider to be much stronger than the downtown. The culture is different here in that people rarely go downtown for things other than work or sports events. With the increase in residential units downtown, I hope that changes going forward.
5) Education:
WashU (#14) is ranked higher than Case Western (#37), and WashU's med school (#6) was ranked as high as #2 not so long ago. Both cities could benefit a lot from a major flagship state school located within the city. Imagine how game changing it would be if Mizzou (34k students) was located in St. Louis or Ohio State (56k students) was located in Cleveland? Unfortunately, that will never happen.
6) Cultural centers:
I think both Cleveland and St. Louis have great cultural and sports institutions that continue to provide a lot of strength. However, I think Cleveland tends to be eclipsed by the other major surrounding metros like Detroit or Pittsburgh. St. Louis is seen as a major center halfway up Illinois, into Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and through Kansas and thus has a much bigger "catchment basin" Its only competition historically has been with Chicago, which historically has also been a competitor city of Cleveland. Chicago won both battles.
St. Louis is much much older than most cities in the interior (STL was 73 years old when Chicago was founded) and was imagined by its founders as THE major inland city of the US, something akin to a Paris or Berlin of North America. While it hasn't quite lived up to those expectations, I still see a lot of potental for this city going forward.
Couple of quick points: St. Louis metro is about 2.7 millinoin; Cleveland is 2.1 with Akron 900k-1,000,000 adjacent to it. Also, the 2010 census did show Cleveland metro decline; the first metro pop. decline in its history.
Also, do you really believe that only 11,000 people use the RTA daily in Cleveland? Does St. Louis also have heavy rail and bus-rapid transit?
St. Louis has seen the largest decline of population than any other city (-62%) so I don't know why you would think Cleveland has been hit a lot harder than STL by the rust belt "effect".
Cleveland aside, you seem to be assuming, or def implying at least, St. Louis's percentage based (different implications than raw numbers obviously) population loss can be attributed just to the "rust belt effect," which is certainly not the case. Furthermore, the population primarily just went right next door to the separate St. Louis county, the metro has never lost population.
Cleveland aside, you seem to be assuming, or def implying at least, St. Louis's percentage based (different implications than raw numbers obviously) population loss can be attributed just to the "rust belt effect," which is certainly not the case. Furthermore, the population primarily just went right next door to the separate St. Louis county, the metro has never lost population.
Same deal with Cleveland, except a small decline with 2010. In fact, rust belt city metros really haven't declined at all (Chicago, Detroit etc.) so I'm not sure what the rust belt effect is then. Please define or maybe the poster who used the term can.
Agreed. While St. Louis's growth has been slow, it has been steady and is picking up speed. While the bulk of the growth is still in the suburbs, there are now 500 people moving into downtown STL each year. In the last decade, downtown has added up to 15,000 people and the occupancy rate of available housing is more than 80%. More developments are starting, to keep up with demand. Add to that the many recent announcements of new companies and jobs coming to town. A technology campus in a once degraded part of the city is attracting several companies that are bringing hundreds, if not thousands of jobs, and that is only one project. Charter communications just announced it is building a massive call center on the north side that will employ up to 800 full time workers. St. Louis has taken a lot of licks over the years, so it's nice to see this grand old city start to move up again.
Humor me....I'm a stats guy:
If downtown's population grew by 15K from 2000 to 2010, and currently it's growing by about 0.5K per year, then it's projected to grow by 5K from 2010 to 2020? That's a major slowdown in activity......is that what you meant to imply? It kind of goes against the notion that St. Louis' growth is "picking up speed".
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