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No, Philly's development is actually kind of scattered. Half of the projects now UC are in University City. The tallest is at Cira Center across the river and not in Center City. Many of the proposals are scattered, as well.
I guess it depends on how you define "scattered." University City is literally right across a fairly narrow river from Center City. It is not an exaggeration to claim that all of Philadelphia's high rise proposals/current construction sites are contained in a less than a 2 square mile area comprising the high rise core. This is even smaller than the traditional boundaries of Center City, because they only fall along Center City's major commercial thoroughfares. I think that's pretty darn concentrated, particularity as far as American cities go.
I guess it depends on how you define "scattered." University City is literally right across a fairly narrow river from Center City. It is not an exaggeration to claim that all of Philadelphia's high rise proposals/current construction sites are contained in a less than a 2 square mile area comprising the high rise core. This is even smaller than the traditional boundaries of Center City, because they only fall along Center City's major commercial thoroughfares. I think that's pretty darn concentrated, particularity as far as American cities go.
FMC and CTIC and Evo and W and 1919 and SLS and 1900 Walnut and Mormon Tower and 3400 Market are literally within blocks of Each Other - (also supposedly a very large 30th St and rail yard announcement next week which could add multiple such towers in this direct mix and along the river see below - but not counting those chickens yet) - Philly is about as concentrated in term of development as it gets based on my experience-similar to SF in this regard (moreso than basically any others maybe)
There is actually going to be 5 cranes alone (1 up 3 in site work and the last to break ground in June) next year directly on either side of the river (divider of U City and CC and only about 75 yards across) all above 20 stories - I actually forgot a few in my earlier post TBH
But then again according to to JSIMMS I don't really understand or know anything anyway - guess my eyes deceive me
But then again according to to JSIMMS I don't really understand or know anything anyway - guess my eyes deceive me
Yea, but consider this, SF has literally single corners in the Financial District with multiple 30+ story towers rising on 3 out of 4 corners (when I say rising, I mean at minimum there is a hole with 200+ ft caissons in the ground, but likely at this point there is a crane up and steel and concrete literally rising). There are 2 blocks in Rincon Hill, which is only 3 blocks from the FiDi corner that I just spoke of, where there are 4 40+ story towers rising (one topped off, one 4 floors up, one has its crane up, and one is at "Philly" stage of development where it hasn't actually broken ground, but SF is a much stronger apt market than Philly and the developer is Equity Residential...so yea, not too concerned about a delay in the Demo permit).
Philly is still mostly in proposal/approved stage now anyway, so technically it doesn't have that many high rises literally "rising" yet to contend. Its economy is not as strong as Boston's, DC's, SF's, or Seattle's, and it doesn't have Latin American flight money like Miami does, so I'm going to sit back and wait for cranes to appear and steel to rise before I consider all of these proposals as done deals.
SF is doing Vancouver style development right now (except even taller). This is highly documented (via pics) on the construction focused sites (SSP for instance). Only on C-D does Philly even get this rep as the king of construction cities...it's definitely not even top 5 and almost always takes a back seat to others. Its economy is not one that allows for mega booms that you see elsewhere.
I'm not too concerned about posting pics (my hard drive just crashed anyway), however, I am a pic poster on SSP. If you want to prove me wrong, post some pics of all this construction you speak of. I don't see it on SSP. I see a few projects that are sizable enough for mention actually happening, and the rest being rendered and talked about with half of the Philly posters on SSP expressing their doubts that they will even happen.
Well again this the cranes just in U City (about to add 3 more actually with holes already)
and am not saying Philly is the King of Construction nor will be next year - it wont But there are more and more concentrated projects that you suggest - not all on 4 corners but all are concentrated and concentrated mostly among the current trees so-to-speak with the exception of UCity which is for the most adding height on the U City directly adjacent to CC
And based on your counts for SF and what I see with my own eyes here - SF and Philly are actually close
And as usual for Philly many local nay-sayers and generally goes under the radar even in this regard
and heaven forbid SF and Philly be mentioned in the same sentence - blaspheme...
Last edited by kidphilly; 03-14-2014 at 12:15 PM..
I'd actually argue that 3-10 story infill can be FAR more interesting aesthetically than any high-rise ever would. Just look at your average European city, or even Boston, Chicago, NYC, Philly, etc, to see how low-rise and mid-rise urban infill can truly make a city feel great. The high-rises are neat to look at, but primarily from a distance. It's the smaller stuff and the sheer quantity and style differences of it all that fascinates me more than anything when I go to a big city!
I agree, the infill projects in LA that are replacing surface parking lots and one-story structures are far more interesting to me, even if they're more modest in scale for a thread like this.
Another one was announced today. 217 units and 50k sq feet of retail replacing a surface parking lot. Los Angeles has dozens of these projects going on right now, they're quietly the real game-changers IMO.
^^^I agree about infill. Lots of big cities will always have that sort of smaller infill going on, though. There are dozens and dozens of smaller 4-8 story projects going up around SF...some with cranes and several without.
I live in an area called Russian Hill, and 2 blocks behind me the Marlow was just completed (8 stories, 98 condos and ground floor retail). 2 blocks in the other direction is a 6 story 27-unit building called Amero that just topped off (replaced a gas station). Catty corner to that is another 6 story 27-unit building to replace another gas station, and renderings were just released. A grocery store (1 story) a block from me is being replaced by condos as well and a 5 story ~16 unit building was just built next to mine (they are still working on interior and front facade).
That just in my mostly built out little area of the city, but yea, there's a lot of that stuff in most major cities with strong economies that I have been to. Which is why I tend to focus on high rises.
I'm not too concerned about posting pics (my hard drive just crashed anyway), however, I am a pic poster on SSP. If you want to prove me wrong, post some pics of all this construction you speak of. I don't see it on SSP. I see a few projects that are sizable enough for mention actually happening, and the rest being rendered and talked about with half of the Philly posters on SSP expressing their doubts that they will even happen.
No one has said that Philadelphia is a "construction king" city, only that development is clearly picking up. Yes, I understand the argument that there needs to be many more proposals moving to the construction phase before it can be considered a top tier development market; however, consider that there are a lot of current/future trends in the city's favor, which is significantly changing the city's trajectory upward (in addition to conventional wisdom). These include:
- Increasingly becoming a top destination for Millenials/empty-nesters
- Increasing its level of immigration
- Increasing living preferences for more urban environments that are walkable, well-served by transit, and have a great sense of place
- Good, diverse mix of industries that are primed for growth (meds, eds, media, tech, life sciences, etc.)
- Very low vacancy rate for high grade apartments
I think developers have really begun to see the incredible value of investing a city like Philadelphia, which is why so many proposals have been popping up (Philadelphia's real estate forecast looks promising). I'd also argue that Philadelphia having such little investment over the past few decades is the very reason it is attractive now -- it is a stable market that does not have a glut of office/apartment inventory.
On deeper level, Philadelphia is also dramatically shifting its tax and zoning structures to be much more attractive to new business, which will have longer-term implications for improving the city's economic strength.
Overall, based on longstanding perceptions, I can understand your skepticism, but it does not take into account real, on-the-ground trends.
A rendering for Atlanta's biggest project at this current moment: The 3 tower 98 14th St project in Midtown. Keep in mind, this is over 1.3k units and 90k sq feet of retail...Skyline changer for sure...
A rendering for Atlanta's biggest project at this current moment: The 3 tower 98 14th St project in Midtown. Keep in mind, this is over 1.3k units and 90k sq feet of retail...Skyline changer for sure...
Not that I don't think that looks great and is wonderful for Atlanta, however, this project really should have been 6 towers instead of three. The retail could have gone into all six building's too. Atlanta just has too much work to do in the urbanity department to build towers this tall with so much land around. Building 6 or maybe 9 towers with the same amount of units would do WAY more than these three towers will for urbanity in Midtown.
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