Philadelphia surpasses Chicago as the 2nd largest downtown in the US! (best, state)
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I'd say SF is even better than Philly in that department though. Philly's CBD is broken away from seamless development on three sides (two rivers and a freeway cutting between them near the CBD's northern edge), while SF's is cut off on two sides (the bay and a freeway that runs along the CBD's southern edge).
And in addition to that, there's the fact that SF simply has fewer empty lots, parking lots, abandoned buildings and such. So there are not only continuous street-walls of unbroken development radiating out for miles from SF's CBD in two directions (compared to just one in Philly), but overall, the streetwalls are more complete as well.
I really don't understand this at all. Sure, I get what you're saying, but I think you're really cutting Philly short. First of all, the Schuylkill river is MAYBE 300 ft across? It takes no more than a minute or two to walk across. It's really not some HUGE barrier preventing the two sides of the river from merging together. It actually acts as quite a nice breaking point for a minute or so before you delve right back into urbanity. http://www.oneriversidecondos.com/wp...-cropped-2.jpg
As for the Vine Street Expressway, I agree it should be capped; in fact I would love this. However, to the west of Broad Street, I don't think it's so much of a barrier as it is to the East of Broad Street. Can you spot the highway in this picture? http://photos.visitphilly.com/benjam...ist-1200VP.jpg
Second, empty lots, parking lots, abandoned buildings?? Lol. I see you're not familiar AT ALL with Philly. What abandoned buildings are there in Center City or University City? I can't think of any currently. Is there REALLY that many parking lots? Is there any empty lots? I can think of three in Center City and none in University City. Most of the surface parking lots and empty lots in Center City and University City are being built on or have immediate plans for construction.
Correction.... I said Between CITY HALL AND UNIVERSITY CITY... The many blocks of row home neighborhoods.
Uh.... where are these rowhome neighborhoods between City Hall and University City??? The connections between University City and Center City are along JFK Blvd, Market St, Chestnut St and Walnut St. Lets take a look at these streets:
The point that people are making is that your whole premise that Philly somehow surpassed Chicago in downtown population is a made up story, when in fact Philly has always had more people downtown just by the way it is structured; in fact, Chicago is catching up to Philly, which you failed to mention and continue to ignore. You are so busy trying to say you are right, that you ignore where you were wrong in making up the surpassed story, somehow inferring that dt Chicago is failing, when it is currently booming. Taht is the problem here, Gwilly.
No, Chicago's downtown population was larger until Philly expanded its downtown area boundaries from the traditional Center City boundaries. Don't forget that downtown Chicago is comprised of the loop(CBD), Near North Side, and Near South Side. I didn't ignore anything. I have been right all along.
I'm not hating on Philadelphia, but I don't think anyone is making the decision to move to Philadelphia solely on the basis that its downtown population is slightly larger in population than Chicago's.
Agree. But some choose a place to live based on its trajectory. One is more likely to consider moving to a city that is growing v one that is stagnant or in decline. This report, while hyped for local PR purposes, nevertheless indicates two important dynamics are underway the city:
1. Philly is in a growth mode, and
2. Gentrification is spreading further and further from the city core, in all directions.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly
No, Chicago's downtown population was larger until Philly expanded its downtown area boundaries from the traditional Center City boundaries. Don't forget that downtown Chicago is comprised of the loop(CBD), Near North Side, and Near South Side. I didn't ignore anything. I have been right all along.
CHICAGO'S LOOP THE ORIGINAL DOWNTOWN, TILL LATE IN THE 20th CENTURY. HAD NO RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS FOR ALL THAT HISTORY. RESIDENTIAL LIVING IN THE LOOP PROPER BEGAN IN THE 70S MAINLY 80S.
As I posted before... Chicago originally, just had JUST THE LOOP AS OFFICIAL DOWNTOWN. BUT BECAUSE IT WAS BOOMING IN SKYSCRAPERS
It added the NEAR NORTH, (second picture) which includes Streeterville as warranted. It has most of the cities Hotels now and premier Shopping street. THAT IS WHAT A DOWNTOWN LEGITAMATLY SHOULD. IT SURE LOOKS IT WITH ALL ITS SKYSCRAPERS MANY RESIDENTIAL OR MIXED USE. Then River North, (first picture) was added. IT TOO LOOKS LIKE IT BELONGS WITH SOME TOP HOTELS TOO. Third picture is part of the NEW EAST SIDE. Though technically outside the Loop? It the downtown still went to the Lake. This just was all new extending skyscrapers.
I SAY... IT'S TIME TO ADD THE GOLD COAST AND LINCOLN PARK NEIGHBORHOOD TO LINCOLN PARK? TO DOWNTOWN CHICAGO OFFICIALLY TOO ????
THAT WOULD THEN INCLUDE... MY FIFTH PICTURE TO LINCOLN PARK IN THE CENTER ....AND 1/2 OF THE FOURTH PICTURE BOTTOM HALF TO EDGE OF PARK THERE.
PHILLY HAS TOTALLY COLONIAL HOME AREAS AND ROW HOME NEIGHBORHOODS AS PART OF ITS DOWNTOWN? SO CHICAGO NEEDS TO ADD THE GOLD COAST.
.................................................. ........................The REALITY IS THE GOLD
.. This area added ... Chicago's .... New Near East .. COAST IS NOT ADDED TO IT??
.. to downtown it ... Near North ... Side surely was . 1/2 HERE'S((NOT) ..NONE HERE OR
.. surely has a lot ...Area added ... warranted to be . INCLUDED AS IN .....((ALL)) THIS ISNOT
.. of warrant to it... to downtown . be in downtown ..�� the downtown ... �� DOWNTOWN
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No, Chicago's downtown population was larger until Philly expanded its downtown area boundaries from the traditional Center City boundaries. Don't forget that downtown Chicago is comprised of the loop(CBD), Near North Side, and Near South Side. I didn't ignore anything. I have been right all along.
Downtown Chicago is not the south loop, loop, and near north side community areas. No one has ever said that and it's not official at all with the city.
First you're including everything up to North Ave which isn't "downtown" and second you're missing huge chunks of the core business district and the main train stations and everything immediately west of the Chicago River.
Stop saying "don't forget" - it's not true in any sense other than you keep saying it over and over.
Agree. But some choose a place to live based on its trajectory. One is more likely to consider moving to a city that is growing v one that is stagnant or in decline. This report, while hyped for local PR purposes, nevertheless indicates two important dynamics are underway the city:
1. Philly is in a growth mode, and
2. Gentrification is spreading further and further form the city core, in all directions.
The problem with this statement is Chicago's Downtown is definitely not either stagnant or declining. Just try searching Downtown population growth rates/raw numbers. I cant find anything real definite from last year, but between 2000-2010, Chicago by raw numbers and percent grew the largest.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614
Downtown Chicago is not the south loop, loop, and near north side community areas. No one has ever said that and it's not official at all with the city.
First you're including everything up to North Ave which isn't "downtown" and second you're missing huge chunks of the core business district and the main train stations and everything immediately west of the Chicago River.
Stop saying "don't forget" - it's not true in any sense other than you keep saying it over and over.
BUT THESE PEOPLE ALSO NEED TO RECOGNIZE CHICAGO IS AND HAS BEEN IN GROWTH MODE IN DOWNTOWN AND SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOODS. Poorer Chicagoans have reduced overall growth by a lot of BLACK FLIGHT OUT TOO.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Chicago as the metro area with the largest numeric increase in “downtown” population between 2000 and 2010.
Chicago’s downtown population grew from 133,426 to 181,714, an increase of 48,288 or 36.2%. New York came in second with a population increase of 37,422, followed by Philadelphia, San Francisco and Washington, DC. Chicago had largest downtown population growth from 2000 to 2010
% of workers living within one Mile of Downtown who work within one Mile of Downtown
Downtown Chicago, IL.. 51.8%..........................Center City - Philadelphia, PA ..40.7%
% of workers living in commercial Downtown who work in commercial Downtown..................
Downtown Chicago, IL.. 52.3% ......................... Center City - Philadelphia, PA ..36.0%
..Total.........Downtown ,Chicago......609,902WORKERS ...UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO...94,935
..Total....Center City, Philadelphia ..288,227 WORKERS....UNIVERSITY CITY, PHILLY...79,368
We have to remember... for much of its history? Chicago's Downtown was not known for living areas... PHILLY WAS... but in the LAST 30 YEARS CHICAGO HAS EXPLOADED IN RESIDENTS IN HIGH-END SKYSCRAPER LIVING.... TO LOFTS TO ....HIGH-END ROW HOME DEVELOPMENTS. SINCE THE LATE 70S 80S.
This includes what is RIVER NORTH TODAY... It was industrial then. Why so much can be lofts in old industrial buildings today. So was most of Streeterville. Now part of Near North. New Near East was Docks, railroad beds built over by use of "Air Rights".
Quote:
For purposes of the report, the "US CENSUS BUREAU" defined “downtown” as the area within a 2-mile radius of the location of the city hall in the principal city in a metropolitan area. To keep cities on EQUAL FITTINGS.
...................................BUT IT IS NOT EQUAL WITH A 1/3 OF CHICAGO'S 2-MILE REACH IS THIS BELOW .............................................GRANT PARK AND HARBOR OF LAKE MICHIGAN ⤵ .............................
................................................." (HOW MANY ROW HOMES CAN FIT IN THIS) "???...................................
The problem with this statement is Chicago's Downtown is definitely not either stagnant or declining. Just try searching Downtown population growth rates/raw numbers. I cant find anything real definite from last year, but between 2000-2010, Chicago by raw numbers and percent grew the largest.
Why are you making this response to my post? I made observations about Philly's growth that the study posted by the OP reveals. I never made any reference to Chicago - neither its comparable rate of growth (nor of decline).
Therefore, since you are interested in a different topic, why don't you try searching for "growth rates/raw numbers" of downtowns?
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... �� DOWNTOWN 
