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I'm not surprised, because unless you are talking about the big coastal metros, cost of living in relation to income isn't too different in most metro areas. There is another site that can allow you to do a COL comparison on a specific city basis, but I can't mention it on here due to being comp for this site.
Also, outside of Mountain Brook, would Vestavia Hills and parts of Hoover and Homewood be considered the most upscale parts of the Birmingham metro? Are there any others?
One other thing, is Hoover High football really that serious in terms of investment and support? Interestingly enough, Rochester's Aquinas High, while not on the same level, is similar in regards to its football program on a state level.
I'm not surprised, because unless you are talking about the big coastal metros, cost of living in relation to income isn't too different in most metro areas. There is another site that can allow you to do a COL comparison on a specific city basis, but I can't mention it on here due to being comp for this site.
Also, outside of Mountain Brook, would Vestavia Hills and parts of Hoover and Homewood be considered the most upscale parts of the Birmingham metro? Are there any others?
Yes. Southside...particularly the portion of Birmingham that borders Mountain Brook is upscale. There is a small enclave of nice homes to the west called Legacy. Other than those there are a couple of very large high profile subdivisions like Greystone, Highland Lakes, Meadowbrook down 280. And than there's Shoal Creek where i think the cheapest homes are a mill and a half.
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One other thing, is Hoover High football really that serious in terms of investment and support? Interestingly enough, Rochester's Aquinas High, while not on the same level, is similar in regards to its football program on a state level.
Both of Hoover's high schools (Hoover and Spain Park) look like college campuses no joke.
Yes. Southside...particularly the portion of Birmingham that borders Mountain Brook is upscale. There is a small enclave of nice homes to the west called Legacy. Other than those there are a couple of very large high profile subdivisions like Greystone, Highland Lakes, Meadowbrook down 280. And than there's Shoal Creek where i think the cheapest homes are a mill and a half.
Both of Hoover's high schools (Hoover and Spain Park) look like college campuses no joke.
Very interesting, because Rochester is very similar as the outer SE/East neighborhoods in Rochester are at least solidly middle class and the suburbs to the East/SE are generally the most affluent suburbs in the area. You have some areas of the Western suburbs that have median household incomes that can get up there as well.
I cannot imagine why anyone would live in either unless born there and tied by relationship or a good job that takes you there.
You do not rate Rochester on Pittsford alone. It has a least five others...and then close in rural that can get pretty nice.
Roc has people with money and education and a foodie system to support them. I will pass on night clubs but the food scene is far better than anywhere in the south with the exception of Miami and Atlanta.
I know Roc better having lived there a couple of decades. Only a passing knowledge of Birmingham though i grew up in the borderline south.
The cities seem very similar (from an urban, not cultural perspective). Both are mid-sized MSAs with some nice suburbs and middling central cities. On the whole, I think most would say they a pleasant places to live, but not really "destination" cities.
Both cities followed the typical US city model of suburbanization and urban flight. As a result, most of both regions civic life revolves around typical auto-centric suburbia.
Rochester has historically probably been the more affluent, white collar "blue chip" economy. But, the region has really struggled the past 15 years as its 3 largest corporations (Kodak, Xerox, and Bosch and Lomb) all collapsed. Today, I would probably say they are economically similar. Rochester has a slightly higher average income, but Birmingham has better growth trends.
In terms of the cities themselves, I would say their downtowns look pretty comparable. Birmingham has the better skyline of the two. But at ground level, both look pretty underutilized with not much after-work streetlife or retail. There have been some recent housing conversions and some new restaurants in both, so hopefully tends are slowly changing. I'm not sure, but probably DT Birmingham is improving at a faster pace. Birmingham also has the advantage of having their university right near the downtown with an urban campus, where the University of Rochester is tucked away in the residential south part of the city in a self contained campus.
In terms of the city neighborhoods, Rochester appears to be a little more urban, as reflected in the higher pop density numbers. Rochester is built like a mid-density Great Lakes city vernacular like Cleveland or Buffalo. Lots of bigger single family homes that are broken up into apartments. Birmingham is more of a lower-density SFH home city, a lot more 1-story homes. According to the census, 61% of homes in Birmingham are 1-unit vs. 44% in Rochester. Not a massive difference, but I think reflective of the fact Rochester has a little more urban "built environment"
When it comes to the suburbs, both cities appear reasonably prosperous. Birmingham's wealthiest single suburb is wealthier than Rochester's wealthiest. But, when you compare the two counties (Monroe vs Jefferson), the two measure up pretty similar. The median income is 45k in Jefferson (Birmingham) and 52k in Monroe (Rochester). When it comes to the high end, both counties have similar shares of families making over $200k (5.3 and 5.2%). Jefferson has a slightly higher poverty rate (18% vs 15%). On the whole, it looks like there is a little less inequality in the Rochester area, but both are economically similar. Prosperous, but not affluent MSAs like Raleigh-Durham or Austin Tx.
On net, my basic view is that neither city enjoys an inherent advantage over the other. The main determinate is which region of the country do you prefer the north or the south?
The cities seem very similar (from an urban, not cultural perspective). Both are mid-sized MSAs with some nice suburbs and middling central cities. On the whole, I think most would say they a pleasant places to live, but not really "destination" cities.
Both cities followed the typical US city model of suburbanization and urban flight. As a result, most of both regions civic life revolves around typical auto-centric suburbia.
Rochester has historically probably been the more affluent, white collar "blue chip" economy. But, the region has really struggled the past 15 years as its 3 largest corporations (Kodak, Xerox, and Bosch and Lomb) all collapsed. Today, I would probably say they are economically similar. Rochester has a slightly higher average income, but Birmingham has better growth trends.
In terms of the cities themselves, I would say their downtowns look pretty comparable. Birmingham has the better skyline of the two. But at ground level, both look pretty underutilized with not much after-work streetlife or retail. There have been some recent housing conversions and some new restaurants in both, so hopefully tends are slowly changing. I'm not sure, but probably DT Birmingham is improving at a faster pace. Birmingham also has the advantage of having their university right near the downtown with an urban campus, where the University of Rochester is tucked away in the residential south part of the city in a self contained campus.
In terms of the city neighborhoods, Rochester appears to be a little more urban, as reflected in the higher pop density numbers. Rochester is built like a mid-density Great Lakes city vernacular like Cleveland or Buffalo. Lots of bigger single family homes that are broken up into apartments. Birmingham is more of a lower-density SFH home city, a lot more 1-story homes. According to the census, 61% of homes in Birmingham are 1-unit vs. 44% in Rochester. Not a massive difference, but I think reflective of the fact Rochester has a little more urban "built environment"
When it comes to the suburbs, both cities appear reasonably prosperous. Birmingham's wealthiest single suburb is wealthier than Rochester's wealthiest. But, when you compare the two counties (Monroe vs Jefferson), the two measure up pretty similar. The median income is 45k in Jefferson (Birmingham) and 52k in Monroe (Rochester). When it comes to the high end, both counties have similar shares of families making over $200k (5.3 and 5.2%). Jefferson has a slightly higher poverty rate (18% vs 15%). On the whole, it looks like there is a little less inequality in the Rochester area, but both are economically similar. Prosperous, but not affluent MSAs like Raleigh-Durham or Austin Tx.
On net, my basic view is that neither city enjoys an inherent advantage over the other. The main determinate is which region of the country do you prefer the north or the south?
In the Rochester area, they just had an announcement where there is Photonics investment. There have also been smaller companies formed by former workers of those bigger companies.
Also, the Southeastern Quarter of Rochester, where U of R is located, is a section of the city with plenty of nightlife, shopping, arts, etc. There's also the East End on the edge of Downtown.
There are bigger homes in parts Rochester that are single family homes as well.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 08-24-2015 at 10:58 AM..
Roc may have decent food but to say it is better than any city in the south outside of Miami and Atlanta is an immiture statement in my book.
If you want to call some one immature you should at least spell it right.
As I said I grew up in the borderline south. I like southern cooking just fine. But in general it leads to weakness in the myriad of other cuisines. Sorry about that but pretty broadly true.
That opinion is based on 40 years of extensively traveling the country.
In the Rochester area, they just had an announcement where there is Photonics investment. There have also been smaller companies formed by former workers of those bigger companies.
Yeah, the overall trendlines in Rochester's economy haven't been good because of the heavy layoffs at the large old school employers. But, underneath the surface Rochester has a pretty solid white collar economy with lots of small emerging high value added players. Hopefully a confluence of slowing losses at the big 3 and accelerating growth at the new players will ultimately tip the balance in the right direction. Rochester, IMO, has much stronger "knowledge economy" than Syracuse and Buffalo, despite a generation of stagnation.
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Also, the Southeastern Quarter of Rochester, where U of R is located, is a section of the city with plenty of nightlife, shopping, arts, etc. There's also the East End on the edge of Downtown.
I wish UR were more of an "urban campus". Although it's technically in the city, the UR isn't really an "urban campus" like the University of Pittsburg or even SU in Syracuse. I know they are building a small "college town" , but I don't think it is quite the same. In an ideal world, UR would flow more naturally into the surrounding neighborhood and anchor a true urban "college town".
The Park Ave/Monroe Village/South Wedge area is an impressive "downtown adjacent" collection of residential areas and commercial corridors. I'm not sure if Birmingham has a similar "fairly dense, active residential zone".
The East End is good example of a proto-"living downtown". Right now the East End is a phase 1.0 living downtown where it has nightlife and some residential, but hasn't fully reached "critical mass" where it is a Saturday afternoon destination with active retail and people watching. Hopefully, it continues to move in the right direction as the middle class under goes a "great inversion" back to the city cores. In an ideal world, Rochester (and every MSA of 1 million) should be able to support a lively downtown core similar to Portland Oregon.
There are bigger homes in parts Rochester that are single family homes as well.[/quote]
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