Washington DC, Miami/Fort Lauderdale, Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, and Atlanta: Rank 1-5 Most-to-Least Southern (states, California)
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I think that Houston is set up a little differently in the North suburbs. That area is more Atlanta-like, if you will.
I don't find DC southern AT ALL. Suburban DC is cute and looks similar to parts of Atlanta, but that's about it, IMO. I visited DC and knew that I was "Up North" without a doubt. The way the area moves is different than anything in the South.
You misunderstood my post entirely.
I was not making a case for Washington D.C. being Southern (even though I personally view it as "more Southern" than Miami, having lived in both and all). I have lived there, I know it, I know that culturally and socially is not Southern but it is not Northeastern either. It is sort of both of them at the same time, has characteristics of both regions, subtle and noticeable, of both regions that straddle each of its sides. It is best classified as "Mid-Atlantic" which isn't a census region but is a localized subregion that includes places in the census defined Northeast and South (both).
That being said, I have always felt that Washington D.C. is basically like if you took Greater Boston and Greater Atlanta and fused them together by taking select traits and characteristics of both, the result would be Washington DC. Basically lay Greater Boston down on the table (so the bones of Boston), then take Greater Atlanta and put it in a blender, shred and grind it until it is no longer physically solid and has turned into a liquid type of state, sort of like a sauce. Then take all of that Atlanta sauce out of the blender and smear it (or spread it) all of it on top of Boston and the result of this fusion of Atlanta and Boston is Washington DC. That's literally what I think of it, except inject steroids to the result since the DMV is larger than both Greater Boston and Greater Atlanta both by MSA and CSA (so it is larger all in all than both).
The DMV, overall, is different from Atlanta, sure, but physically the geography, the location, the economy, the educational institutional aspect, the demographics, the transiency, the migratory patterns, CDC, the climate, the suburban design of the bedroom communities, the edge cities, the fertility rates, the government and defense features, the Eastern Time Zone, and other traits make it more like Atlanta than Houston, Dallas, or Miami being like Atlanta IMO. Not a duplicate of Atlanta as the DMV is its own place with its own features and is denser and more built up with more infrastructure but like a close enough cousin type of relationship. That doesn't mean the DMV is this Southern epicenter culturally or socially, just that it physically has more aligned with Atlanta than the others do.
Houston's closest peer among this bunch is easily Dallas, not Atlanta, and Miami has to go peerless on this matter as no where else shares physical traits with it to any meaningful extent IMO. Dallas is way more like Houston than Atlanta, Miami, or Washington DC are like Houston.
Here's a trivia:
By 2020 Dallas, Houston, Washington D.C., Miami, and Atlanta will rank as the #4, #5, #6, #7, and #8 most populous MSAs in the United States, respectively. They'll literally be lined up one-by-one overall in the size related pecking order. When the 2017 numbers finally come out in March 2018, it will show that Miami will move up from its current #8 to #7 and by 2020 Atlanta will move up to #8 from its current position of #9. The other three are locked into their proper places for the time being as #4, #5, and #6, respectively. As MSAs, these are all like-sized areas.
Last edited by Trafalgar Law; 12-01-2017 at 03:40 PM..
Maybe I've watched too much Potomac Housewives. lol
VA and MD at least look more stereotypical southern with the trees and such. parts of NOVA are laid out like cities you'd see in the South with winding two lane roads and heavily wooded. It just feels more southern than MIA.
Having said that, outside of the AA's and americanized black migrants who are influenced by the AA's, Miami/SoFla doesn't feel or look like anywhere else in the South, or the US for that matter. And no, Miami doesn't feel like a Northern city, and I hate when certain ppl say that. Even culturally, Latin America has a bigger influence on Miami/SoFla than NYC does. Miami is a mix of Latin-American culture, West Indian culture, and Southern AA culture. Architecturally SoFla is also too distinct for it to feel like it belongs in any one region. It's certainly a Southern city, but it's a city unto it's self.
I was not making a case for Washington D.C. being Southern (even though I personally view it as "more Southern" than Miami, having lived in both and all). I have lived there, I know it, I know that culturally and socially is not Southern but it is not Northeastern either. It is sort of both of them at the same time, has characteristics of both regions, subtle and noticeable, of both regions that straddle each of its sides. It is best classified as "Mid-Atlantic" which isn't a census region but is a localized subregion that includes places in the census defined Northeast and South (both).
That being said, I have always felt that Washington D.C. is basically like if you took Greater Boston and Greater Atlanta and fused them together by taking select traits and characteristics of both, the result would be Washington DC. Basically lay Greater Boston down on the table (so the bones of Boston), then take Greater Atlanta and put it in a blender, shred and grind it until it is no longer physically solid and has turned into a liquid type of state, sort of like a sauce. Then take all of that Atlanta sauce out of the blender and smear it (or spread it) all of it on top of Boston and the result of this fusion of Atlanta and Boston is Washington DC. That's literally what I think of it, except inject steroids to the result since the DMV is larger than both Greater Boston and Greater Atlanta both by MSA and CSA (so it is larger all in all than both).
The DMV, overall, is different from Atlanta, sure, but physically the geography, the location, the economy, the educational institutional aspect, the demographics, the transiency, the migratory patterns, CDC, the climate, the suburban design of the bedroom communities, the edge cities, the fertility rates, the government and defense features, the Eastern Time Zone, and other traits make it more like Atlanta than Houston, Dallas, or Miami being like Atlanta IMO. Not a duplicate of Atlanta as the DMV is its own place with its own features and is denser and more built up with more infrastructure but like a close enough cousin type of relationship. That doesn't mean the DMV is this Southern epicenter culturally or socially, just that it physically has more aligned with Atlanta than the others do.
Houston's closest peer among this bunch is easily Dallas, not Atlanta, and Miami has to go peerless on this matter as no where else shares physical traits with it to any meaningful extent IMO. Dallas is way more like Houston than Atlanta, Miami, or Washington DC are like Houston.
Here's a trivia:
By 2020 Dallas, Houston, Washington D.C., Miami, and Atlanta will rank as the #4, #5, #6, #7, and #8 most populous MSAs in the United States, respectively. They'll literally be lined up one-by-one overall in the size related pecking order. When the 2017 numbers finally come out in March 2018, it will show that Miami will move up from its current #8 to #7 and by 2020 Atlanta will move up to #8 from its current position of #9. The other three are locked into their proper places for the time being as #4, #5, and #6, respectively. As MSAs, these are all like-sized areas.
How in the world is DC more "Southern" than Miami?
I've been to and walked through both Miami and DC a trillion times. And I must say Miami might be more southern by default of being in in an undoubtedly Southern state. But users feeling that Miami is less Southern than DC might have to do with just how foreign Miami/SoFla feels from the rest of the US altogether. But speaking on the DMV, NoVa in particular felt Southern to me. Culturally it felt similar to NC. SoFla on the other hand has no real comparisons or cultural peers in the rest of the South. SoFla is SoFla. Everything about SoFla feels unlike the rest of the US let alone the South.
Having said that, you can still find pockets of Southern culture in SoFla's AA neighborhoods. I don't know why folks wanna deny the existence of neighborhoods like Overtown and Liberty City. But even then, Overtown, Liberty City and other historically African American neighborhoods in South Florida have seen a culture blend with West Indians(Bahamians in particular) so there are certain social customs within the AA Community in SoFla that are just entirely different than the rest of the South. The Junkanoo Carnival and Goombay Festivals in particular are so different from what you'd find in other Southern towns save for maybe New Orleans. Bahamians have been in SoFla for so long, that they've mixed so much of their cultural customs with the Blacks who migrated to Florida from GA, NC, SC, etc. South Florida really different from the rest of the South while still being really connected to the rest of the South via roots, family history, and black migration patterns. As more Hatians marry out, we'll see more Haitian/AA family customs. Alot of AA's in SoFla have familiarized themselves with Haitian culture and knowledge and many Haitians have been influenced by AA's.
DC's city-limits felt like a mix to me. The area around Howard, while urban, many of the AA's in Banneker Park and Columbia Heights felt like they had similar customs to folks right across the way in VA. DC's set-up felt very Northern though. U-Street felt like somewhere in Boston.
Miami/SoFla doesn't feel or look like anywhere else in the South, or the US for that matter. And no, Miami doesn't feel like a Northern city, and I hate when certain ppl say that. Even culturally, Latin America has a bigger influence on Miami/SoFla than NYC does. Miami is a mix of Latin-American culture, West Indian culture, and Southern AA culture.
The only other place in the United States that goes through some of the same complexities that Southeast Florida (Miami/Fort Lauderdale area) goes through is Honolulu and given its size, it is to a much smaller scale. However, both are incredibly influenced by foreign elements that fuse with their native localized cultures.
Taking your lead and making an example for Honolulu: Honolulu is a mix of Asia-Pacific, Oceanian (the state of Hawaii is located in Oceania rather than North America), and Western culture (the U.S. census classifies Honolulu as the Western United States). Miami is physically as southern as you can get in the continental United States, it's at the southern terminus of that country without being one of the Caribbean territories like Puerto Rico, United States Virgin Islands, and the like. Likewise, Honolulu is as physically western as you can get in the United States as a whole, it is the western terminus of that country without being some of the United States' western territories in the Pacific like American Samoa, Guam, the various number of atolls and the like.
Similar to Miami, Honolulu is in some ways the antithesis of its census classified region, the Western U.S. (census region), and in some ways the embodiment of it.
Last edited by Trafalgar Law; 12-02-2017 at 03:19 PM..
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