Washington DC, Miami/Fort Lauderdale, Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, and Atlanta: Rank 1-5 Most-to-Least Southern (Boston, transportation)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hmm, so if Florida isn't Southern, what is it then?
When people resort to transplanted locals as the primary argument for why a place isn't southern, they lose credibility to me. Why?
Many, if not most, but certainly millions of New Yorkers are not actually native New Yorkers. New Yorkers come from every single state in the Union and every country on the planet, and guess what? Those people assimilate into American culture, into New York culture, not the other way around. Transplants often retain characteristics of their homeland/region/city, such as appetites, accents, and others, but transplants definitely assimilate into the local culture--the local culture does not turn into the transplant, though the local culture may incorporate elements of transplanted culture into it's own...
I lived in New York State for over two years and definitely was on my way to being assimilated, picking up on local slang, developing a taste for foods I hadn't previously eaten, attending events/shows/festivals I didn't previously go to, becoming familiar with local demographics, rooting for local sports teams, my body naturally became adjusted to the weather, I can go on and on. I can also say the same thing for my stay in North Carolina. Yet I always retained signatures of my roots, and that was noticeable to those aroumd me, but I was definitely familiarizing with the local customs and not the other way around...
Also, when I lived in NYS, I knew people who lived in The City from St Louis, Chicago, all over the South, many different nations, etc. I know people who live in New York City right now who I've known at other times in my life who are from many other states...
As it relates to this thread, the correlation is that the "oh we have so many _____ transplants" angle is only used by idiots wanting to distance themselves from the South, not anywhere else. I'm originally from California, as in I was born there and the whole nine, bit guess what? Many Californians aren't natives, either...
I've made the argument many times that modern-day Richmond and urban Virginia isn't much characteristically southern compared to the rest of the South, though it is compared to northern locations, but you know what point I didn't use to make said argument? "Transplants". Don't have to, because whether I'm right or wrong in my opinion, there are several lines of thinking that 'could support my argument without talking about "all the northern transplants". Those transplants assimilate into the local culture, not the other way around. Just like everywhere else, the transplants are part of the individuality that differentiate places and make them unique...
The bogus transplant theory would actually mean most places are the same since the largest cities in the US are full to the brim with people not originally from those cities. But nobody supports that argument though, do they (that all cities are the same)?
To loop back aroumd to the thread: I've been to Dallas. Is it maybe less southern than other parts of the South, maybe, but East Texas/Gulf Coast Texas/South Texas, those places are southern. Sure, their own brand of the South, different background, but definitely southern...
Never been to Florida but I have family from New York that live in both Orlando and Jacksonville--I can assure you they believe those cities are southern. Different? Of course, but from the hundreds of Floridians I've met in my life, all racial backgrounds, from Miami and everywhere else, from the many Florida celebrities I've watched, someone has a hard sell telling me Florida isn't southern. I'm including Miami and everywhere else in there, just like you said, if it ain't the South, where is it? Lol there are four major geographic regions in the US. The only one Florida can be in is the South, it ain't "north" of anything. Culturally, listen, it's not a northern state, I dont have to have lived there to know this. I also don't have to have lived in Libya to know it's a cultural cluster****...
Rant over, I just wish people could leave these transplant arguments out of their speech. Quite possibly the weakest arguments for saying a place isn't something, ever...
As it relates to this thread, the correlation is that the "oh we have so many _____ transplants" angle is only used by idiots wanting to distance themselves from the South, not anywhere else.
I agree with your thread in its entirety but this statement is what it all boils down to.
When people resort to transplanted locals as the primary argument for why a place isn't southern, they lose credibility to me. Why?
Many, if not most, but certainly millions of New Yorkers are not actually native New Yorkers. New Yorkers come from every single state in the Union and every country on the planet, and guess what? Those people assimilate into American culture, into New York culture, not the other way around. Transplants often retain characteristics of their homeland/region/city, such as appetites, accents, and others, but transplants definitely assimilate into the local culture--the local culture does not turn into the transplant, though the local culture may incorporate elements of transplanted culture into it's own...
I lived in New York State for over two years and definitely was on my way to being assimilated, picking up on local slang, developing a taste for foods I hadn't previously eaten, attending events/shows/festivals I didn't previously go to, becoming familiar with local demographics, rooting for local sports teams, my body naturally became adjusted to the weather, I can go on and on. I can also say the same thing for my stay in North Carolina. Yet I always retained signatures of my roots, and that was noticeable to those around me, but I was definitely familiarizing with the local customs and not the other way around...
Also, when I lived in NYS, I knew people who lived in The City from St Louis, Chicago, all over the South, many different nations, etc. I know people who live in New York City right now who I've known at other times in my life who are from many other states...
As it relates to this thread, the correlation is that the "oh we have so many _____ transplants" angle is only used by idiots wanting to distance themselves from the South, not anywhere else. I'm originally from California, as in I was born there and the whole nine, bit guess what? Many Californians aren't natives, either...
I agree and disagree with you =)
For NYC, part of the main characteristic and culture of the city has always been about immigrants both internally and internationally. Ellis Island is an iconic part of our history. It's a city where entire films are made about people from all over the world and "small town" America wanting to move to and succeed and make their dreams come true. If we were to replace most of NYC residents with all residents from let's say Birmingham, Chattanooga, Mobile etc.. I would definitely say NYC is becoming more Southern in culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock
I've made the argument many times that modern-day Richmond and urban Virginia isn't much characteristically southern compared to the rest of the South, though it is compared to northern locations, but you know what point I didn't use to make said argument? "Transplants". Don't have to, because whether I'm right or wrong in my opinion, there are several lines of thinking that 'could support my argument without talking about "all the northern transplants". Those transplants assimilate into the local culture, not the other way around. Just like everywhere else, the transplants are part of the individuality that differentiate places and make them unique...
The bogus transplant theory would actually mean most places are the same since the largest cities in the US are full to the brim with people not originally from those cities. But nobody supports that argument though, do they (that all cities are the same)?
To loop back aroumd to the thread: I've been to Dallas. Is it maybe less southern than other parts of the South, maybe, but East Texas/Gulf Coast Texas/South Texas, those places are southern. Sure, their own brand of the South, different background, but definitely southern...
Never been to Florida but I have family from New York that live in both Orlando and Jacksonville--I can assure you they believe those cities are southern. Different? Of course, but from the hundreds of Floridians I've met in my life, all racial backgrounds, from Miami and everywhere else, from the many Florida celebrities I've watched, someone has a hard sell telling me Florida isn't southern. I'm including Miami and everywhere else in there, just like you said, if it ain't the South, where is it? Lol there are four major geographic regions in the US. The only one Florida can be in is the South, it ain't "north" of anything. Culturally, listen, it's not a northern state, I dont have to have lived there to know this. I also don't have to have lived in Libya to know it's a cultural cluster****...
Rant over, I just wish people could leave these transplant arguments out of their speech. Quite possibly the weakest arguments for saying a place isn't something, ever...
I'll use DC as an example since it's my hometown area. While I'll agree that DC will be a Southern City according to the census designation (as long as it doesn't change), DC is not what it used to be in terms of culture and distinct "traditional" characteristics. DC today is what it is due to transplants. Whether one likes it or not, DC has been molded and evolved to what is today mostly due to influence from the Northern half of the country and from other cities. I certainly believe transplants can easily evolve, dilute, change and influence the cultural characteristics of a city. We're seeing this everyday as it is with cities becoming more and more alike. This even relates closely to how Virginia has become a solidly blue state as of recent, mostly due to transplants and growth in it's more urban areas. So while DC will always be a Southern City by census designation, it is far from a city of Southern characteristics.
I think it also relates to how many transplants a city is seeing. If it's nothing more then the average I can certainly see most of the transplants acclimating to the local culture, however if it's influx of folks i.e. Atlanta, SF etc... I believe those transplants will not assimilate or adapt to the local culture as much but rather be able to retain their habits and cultural identities more strongly due to being surrounded by like minded folk.
I'll use DC as an example since it's my hometown area. While I'll agree that DC will be a Southern City according to the census designation (as long as it doesn't change), DC is not what it used to be in terms of culture and distinct "traditional" characteristics. DC today is what it is due to transplants. Whether one likes it or not, DC has been molded and evolved to what is today mostly due to influence from the Northern half of the country and from other cities. I certainly believe transplants can easily evolve, dilute, change and influence the cultural characteristics of a city. We're seeing this everyday as it is with cities becoming more and more alike. This even relates closely to how Virginia has become a solidly blue state as of recent, mostly due to transplants and growth in it's more urban areas. So while DC will always be a Southern City by census designation, it is far from a city of Southern characteristics.
I can't say it's the same scenario for all cities but this could pertain to what I noted below in my above comment. Perhaps they have not seen enough of an influx of transplants to have made a strong enough of an impact on the local culture?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120
I think it also relates to how many transplants a city is seeing. If it's nothing more then the average I can certainly see most of the transplants acclimating to the local culture, however if it's influx of folks i.e. Atlanta, SF etc... I believe those transplants will not assimilate or adapt to the local culture as much but rather be able to retain their habits and cultural identities more strongly due to being surrounded by like minded folk.
Having a bunch of northern transplants diversifies the local culture, but does not preclude you from your actual self. It's funny, in New York and Los Angeles, the large mixing of cultures and transplants from other American regions is called "diversity" and celebrated, but the mixing of cultures and transplants in southern areas is called "dilution" and used as a justification to disalign from its core region. One is seen as such an outlier that it absolutely cannot be ignored that the massive transplant migration means this city is no longer in this region (even though geographically the city hasn't gone anywhere and culturisms of this region are still evident), while the other, inexplicably and astoundingly so, somehow the massive transplant population doesn't seperate said city from said region...
I hate this forum and the personalities on it lol...
I can't say it's the same scenario for all cities but this could pertain to what I noted below in my above comment. Perhaps they have not seen enough of an influx of transplants to have made a strong enough of an impact on the local culture?
I don't think transplants had much to do with Baltimore's reclassification. As a matter of fact, it could be argued that the last big wave of transplants the city experienced was during the Great Migration which actually "Southernized" cities to an extent. Or maybe it was because since Baltimore is north of DC, Baltimore automatically got reclassified when DC did?
I don't think transplants had much to do with Baltimore's reclassification. As a matter of fact, it could be argued that the last big wave of transplants the city experienced was during the Great Migration which actually "Southernized" cities to an extent. Or maybe it was because since Baltimore is north of DC, Baltimore automatically got reclassified when DC did?
I don't know the answer or the reasons why... we can speculate I suppose. But I'm fully on the page that the residents of said city is what makes the city culturally this or that. If most of the migration into DC were coming from a Northward direction from all areas of the South, we wouldn't be having back and forths about DC 's "Southerness". If the current migration pattern continues where a large influx of folks from California keeps migrating into Dallas and Atlanta keeps seeing Northerners, I guarantee we will be seeing those cities drifting further away from their original "said" regional characteristics/identities. Like I noted previously, even with NYC, if we were to replace most of it's residents with folks from places like Birmingham and Mobile, NYC would definitely start to see a cultural transition.
For NYC, part of the main characteristic and culture of the city has always been about immigrants both internally and internationally. Ellis Island is an iconic part of our history. It's a city where entire films are made about people from all over the world and "small town" America wanting to move to and succeed and make their dreams come true. If we were to replace most of NYC residents with all residents from let's say Birmingham, Chattanooga, Mobile etc.. I would definitely say NYC is becoming more Southern in culture.
I'll use DC as an example since it's my hometown area. While I'll agree that DC will be a Southern City according to the census designation (as long as it doesn't change), DC is not what it used to be in terms of culture and distinct "traditional" characteristics. DC today is what it is due to transplants. Whether one likes it or not, DC has been molded and evolved to what is today mostly due to influence from the Northern half of the country and from other cities. I certainly believe transplants can easily evolve, dilute, change and influence the cultural characteristics of a city. We're seeing this everyday as it is with cities becoming more and more alike. This even relates closely to how Virginia has become a solidly blue state as of recent, mostly due to transplants and growth in it's more urban areas. So while DC will always be a Southern City by census designation, it is far from a city of Southern characteristics.
I think it also relates to how many transplants a city is seeing. If it's nothing more then the average I can certainly see most of the transplants acclimating to the local culture, however if it's influx of folks i.e. Atlanta, SF etc... I believe those transplants will not assimilate or adapt to the local culture as much but rather be able to retain their habits and cultural identities more strongly due to being surrounded by like minded folk.
Just my 2 cents.
You're missing my point; New York was just the most high-profile of dozens of examples I could have used. My point is that we only use The Bogus Transplant Theory to seperate southern cities from the South--not western cities from the West, not northeastern cities from the Northeast, not Midwestern cities from the Midwest. Only southern cities from the South...
You're missing my point; New York was just the most high-profile of dozens of examples I could have used. My point is that we only use The Bogus Transplant Theory to seperate southern cities from the South--not western cities from the West, not northeastern cities from the Northeast, not Midwestern cities from the Midwest. Only southern cities from the South...
Isn't that mostly because the South is where most of the growth and transnational migration is landing at? The other regions are not being bombarded as much with transplants from other regions as much as the South.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
