Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Cleveland boosters are ridiculous. It's like arguing with wall.
? Several of these posters really have no connection to Cleveland, at all. In fact a majority in this thread. And I don't think anyone is saying that climate is undisputably better, just that the logic behind saying Miami/Florida's climate is undisputably better, is indeed flawed. If you prefer it, that's good, and many do, but you can't speak for everyone.
1. Part of the reason you see a lot more people doing the sports you mentioned than otherwise isn't just location, but expense. Those sports are things that only upper middle and upper class families can typically afford. However, lots of kids love playing in the snow, be it from all classes. But, we can also look at stats in some ways too. The population of Denver grew at a faster rate than any metro in FL did, and the median housing costs of ski resort towns such as Breckenridge, Vail and Aspen is higher than what would find anywhere in FL, even Palm Beach.
2. You mention that desirability factor, but again, desirable for whom? A lot more of it has to do with the fact that for the type of people who prefer cities like Cleveland (for valid reasons), there are probably 10 similar cities across the Midwest and Northeast with varying advantages in amenities and cost of living, where Miami is the only city in the lower 48 that has that type of climate year round.
3. I think many actual residents of Miami wish it were a lot less popular than it was though, as in the end, that demand that is there from rich northerners (like Trump) make it a worse place to live in many ways. Because salaries aren't commensurate with COL in many cases (many living on 11$ a day there) I believe 47% of mortgages there are underwater. That's astounding, and no amount of sun/sand will make up for that. Also, it's important to note that part of the reason for that short supply is that Miami effectively serves as a modern day Ellis Island for the Carribean/Latin America. Which, while its nice for diversity purposes, makes housing a tough find. Those people there coming from those other places may prefer it, or not, or not really have a concept of anywhere else, however, solely by being in the US as opposed to their home countries, it's likely they're happy to have found a significantly higher QOL.
4. As per the weather comment, I agree with you, sort of. Obviously once it's been freezing and everything, then it's suddenly sunny, everyone is gonna get out and enjoy it. But, look at when people run, not just elites. The Boston Marathon? April. The Chicago Marathon? October. NYC? November. If those weren't better times to run those races that are very much for the masses as well, they wouldn't be run then. And, there's still the fact that in terms of fitness, the Upper Midwest, New England, the PNW and SF are the fittest places. Income plays a factor in that certainly, but, it's also just part of the culture because the temperature is more prone for it. Running/biking is honestly more of a subculture in FL compared to what it is up north, and hiking is almost nonexistent.
Too much to comment on here.
Number 1: So why aren't there more festivals and outdoor seating in restaurants during winter? Why do more people spend their time inside in winter than summer? Kids love the snow, but kids also like the pool, beach, pretty much anything that let's them run around and do whatever, regardless of cold or hot weather. So I feel that is a moot point. I am focusing on adults here, kids don't mind the weather as much whether hot or cold.
Number 2: Desirable for a lot of people. Why do retirees go south or to hot climates? Why do people love the SoCal lifestyle so much? Why during the warmer months of cold cities are people more active and outdoors?
Number 3: Have no idea why you included that quip....
Number 4: Yeah they have those marathons in those "cooler" months, and let's also clarify those aren't winter months which is what we are talking about, because those people are running a ridiculous amount of miles. We aren't talking about your average joe when you talk those marathons. Those are people that are running dozen miles. That's not your average outdoor activity for the average person. Most people go running for an hour or so and 80 degree weather is enjoyable for that. If I were running 15 miles no I wouldn't do it when it's hot, and that's why marathons take place in those cooler months.
But you are still constrained in those cities whether it be inside, or in a pool.
I have spent many unbearably cold days in an outside hot tub, even though I was outside I was still constrained to that hot tub.
But you can still be outside a lot more and hang out outside. when I get out of the pool and i then go lay out for a bit in the sun and have a drink while laying out. Can you do the same when you get out of the hot tub on those cold days?
? Several of these posters really have no connection to Cleveland, at all. In fact a majority in this thread. And I don't think anyone is saying that climate is undisputably better, just that the logic behind saying Miami/Florida's climate is undisputably better, is indeed flawed. If you prefer it, that's good, and many do, but you can't speak for everyone.
I am not saying one is better than the other. I am saying overall the aspects of warmer weather people prefer over cold weather in general. And I wasn't using Miami as the end all be all, just an example. And I get some people prefer cold weather or want all seasons, but based on trends, the way people are moving around in this country, where they vacation, I just see people more interested in warm weather overall. Not everyone, but a good majority of people.
I totally get that, and my quips about weather wasn't directed towards you. It was someone who mentioned that people who don't like winter "are precious little flowers" which is not the case...
actually, it is the case and proven time and time again with their repeatedly demonstrated woosiness in these threads
actually, it is the case and proven time and time again with their repeatedly demonstrated woosiness in these threads
I have dealt with 30 years of winter, and I just don't want to put up with it. I feel I have paid my dues of dealing with gloomy days, snow, and being limited in my outdoor activities. I think I deserve to be able to want to live somewhere where I can do outdoor activities year round. If that makes me a precious flower then so be it.
1 To your point about more people being interested in warm weather: I agree. People are by their very nature more interested in the things they aren't around (grass is greener). And, there are A LOT more people living in climates that aren't Miami, so obviously, it's different, exotic, etc.
2 I've always believed something like this. 52 (or thereabouts) is the ideal temperature for doing, 72 is the ideal temperature for being (or thereabouts). Before air conditioning, there's a reason Florida was a wasteland. However, I'll say this. For short term exposure, going to and from places, cold weather is more uncomfortable. But for extended exposure, warm weather is more uncomfortable. Otherwise, the south would've been developed earlier. Just my two cents.
3 It would be tough to evaluate that, who knows. I agree SoCal most people would consider the most desirable, not sure if the same can be said for Miami.
4 I think we both agree warm/moderate weather is the best. The question in mind is which is worse: overly hot or cold? Well that subjective, and it's also subject to change and entirely impossible to determine whether more prefer the former or latter for extended periods of time. There was a study that determined that peak human happiness occurs at 57 degrees, but who knows.
5 The most 5K races and 10K races in general occur during those times though. And a morning in November in NYC is still likely to have temps in the 40s, difference being that you can always wear more clothes, but not always less.
6 The quip in Miami was in response to a knock on Cleveland (cheaper=less desirable). Those people facing those struggles would prefer fewer people desired it.
Again, agree to disagree.
Edit: didn't mean wasteland as a knock though see how it could be taken as such. Simply that there was no one there.
Cleveland boosters are ridiculous. It's like arguing with wall.
You have a very weird obsession with Cleveland.
It's like the thought of people not viewing the world exactly the same as you is unthinkable. Very, very sad.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
