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Who the hell is John Candy? And how is he equal to the Skyscraper, Barack Obama, Blues, McDonalds or Ernest Hemingway? Not to mention the Chicago School of Economics, The Frank Lloyd Wright School of Architecture or the 90 Nobel Prizes from Chicagoans?
And nobody outside of Canada eats poutine.
If defence of Poutine it is available in many places outside of Canada.
Okay, and that still doesn't change anything else above like the fact that the city has the highest levels of employment since before the recession and equal to when the city had 175K more people officially, and it doesn't change the fact that Chicago has the fifth fastest growth rate of households making at least $200K/year of any city in the country and higher than cities like Houston, Dallas, NYC, Los Angeles, etc.
Comparing Chicago and Toronto area was the most minor point I made above.
Yes but you're also not addressing the root of the issue. Everything you've posted is an indication of some combating of decline, not that decline isn't happening.
Chicago was the only city in the US top 15 most populous cities to post a population decline in 2015 from 2014, losing 2,890 people. This is not Chicagoland, this is the city of Chicago (2015 population 2,720,546). Obviously some parts of the city will grow and others will decline, but overall, the city's population has declined. You cannot confine your statistics to one bubble and ignore the rest of the city.
To give you perspective, the next closest city by population, Houston (2015 pop: 2,296,224), added 40,032 people in the same period. In fact Houston is projected to eventually overtake Chicago to become the third most populous city in the US. This is a sign of Chicago's decline.
Furthermore, the article is correct in that the Hispanic population spurred on by Sanctuary status in Chicago has propped up population numbers for some time, yet despite this there is still overall population decline. Both blacks and whites have been leaving Chicago.
The primary reason is the city and the state are both very poorly run, and the political corruption in Chicago is long and well documented.
You know Mr. Burns, none of this is important. You are constructing a straw man. The pure part of it is that I have shown you evidence that Chicago is not declining at all. Only a fool would sit in a place 700+ miles away talking about another place they haven't lived in during the last five years, and tell a person who is living there currently and very aware of the current state of the other place..how it is. Sometimes it is just best to sit back, shut up, and listen while others tell you about various things instead of thinking you know everything.
Now, let's get back to the important issues at hand. Please do the following for me.
1) Name me something in Toronto that is just as economically important for the world as the Chicago Mercantile Exchange/Chicago Board of Options Exchange?
2) Name me one research institution/university in Toronto that is just as prestigious and important as the University of Chicago.
Here is the thing that you don't understand, nor get. Even if Chicago were declining (which it isn't - we've already shown otherwise numerous times) those two things alone are not declining. Those two things are as important to the world as most other things in the world. If you do not understand why, then god help you because I hope you educate yourself instead of being a subjective fool trying to convince people on an internet message board that your city is important when those people already agree that the city is important.
Tons of people know who Drake is, and that's great. Most cities have famous people from them - Kanye West is from Chicago. Oprah was in Chicago for a few decades. Madonna is from Michigan. Big deal. Barely means much of anything in the overall context of the question. If your entire basis that Toronto > Chicago is set up on the fact that Drake is from there and Toronto is currently growing while Chicago's growth is very slow, then you have no point at all. This is about powerful things - and last time I checked, the largest financial market in the United States which sets prices on food, shipping, oil, etc is in Chicago. Last time I checked, the current President of the United States and the one that's been there for nearly 8 years, was a teacher at the University of Chicago. Last time I checked, the University of Chicago had the 3rd most nobel prize winners of any institution in the entire world after Harvard (Boston) and Columbia (NYC), and the former central banker for India was not only a professor before that job at the University of Chicago, but is also returning to be a professor there again.
So please for all of us, stop talking about Drake. This is not important in which city is more powerful. Please educate us on what Toronto has that can beat Chicago in the two questions above. Then we'll talk about what's actually relevant to this discussion - not a rap/hip-hop artist who has been famous for a handful of years. That doesn't make a city powerful, sorry to burst your bubble. I guess we should call Compton powerful because of the gangsta rap that came out of there in the late 80s/early 90s. Oh wait, nobody would bring that up in a serious conversation about which place is more powerful.
Last edited by marothisu; 11-11-2016 at 05:43 PM..
^^^^ All your post Sir are Awesome. It sure shows when Mature knowledgeable posters. Know one of their adopted cities. You, marothisu and Facts Kill Rhetoric. Both deserve to be among the next C-D $500 winners.
You know Mr. Burns, none of this is important. You are constructing a straw man. The pure part of it is that I have shown you evidence that Chicago is not declining at all. Only a fool would sit in a place 700+ miles away talking about another place they haven't lived in during the last five years, and tell a person who is living there currently and very aware of the current state of the other place..how it is. Sometimes it is just best to sit back, shut up, and listen while others tell you about various things instead of thinking you know everything.
It's all relative.
No one is saying Chicago is now Detroit or the equivalent of a 3rd world ghetto city.
Relative to all other large US cities, and Toronto, Chicago is in decline. It's declining from a powerful place, but it's still in decline.
This is what the numbers tell us, regardless of business activity in your little sector of the city.
People are moving away from the city of Chicago in much higher numbers than they are moving away from any other large city in the United States. This is not a sign of health, and indeed the first sign of stagnation/decline.
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Now, let's get back to the important issues at hand. Please do the following for me.
1) Name me something in Toronto that is just as economically important for the world as the Chicago Mercantile Exchange/Chicago Board of Options Exchange?
2) Name me one research institution/university in Toronto that is just as prestigious and important as the University of Chicago.
You mean the Toronto Stock Exchange? The third largest stock exchange in the Americas and the largest energy/mining exchange in the world? Where over 75% of the world's gold is traded?
And as for UofT, I'm perfectly fine with its world rankings, it's a top notch university in an incredible setting in downtown Toronto.
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Tons of people know who Drake is, and that's great. Most cities have famous people from them - Kanye West is from Chicago. Oprah was in Chicago for a few decades. Madonna is from Michigan. Big deal. Barely means much of anything in the overall context of the question. If your entire basis that Toronto > Chicago is set up on the fact that Drake is from there and Toronto is currently growing while Chicago's growth is very slow, then you have no point at all. This is about powerful things - and last time I checked, the largest financial market in the United States which sets prices on food, shipping, oil, etc is in Chicago. Last time I checked, the current President of the United States and the one that's been there for nearly 8 years, was a teacher at the University of Chicago. Last time I checked, the University of Chicago had the 3rd most nobel prize winners of any institution in the entire world after Harvard (Boston) and Columbia (NYC), and the former central banker for India was not only a professor before that job at the University of Chicago, but is also returning to be a professor there again.
So please for all of us, stop talking about Drake. This is not important in which city is more powerful. Please educate us on what Toronto has that can beat Chicago in the two questions above. Then we'll talk about what's actually relevant to this discussion - not a rap/hip-hop artist who has been famous for a handful of years. That doesn't make a city powerful, sorry to burst your bubble. I guess we should call Compton powerful because of the gangsta rap that came out of there in the late 80s/early 90s. Oh wait, nobody would bring that up in a serious conversation about which place is more powerful.
I wholeheartedly agree, famous people are not relevant in city discussions. Eminem is from Detroit, does that make Detroit better than every other city from which there isn't a comparably popular artist? Of course not.
But Drizzy...this guy has repped Toronto hard - to the point where he put the CN Tower on his album cover (the best selling album of 2016 by far). People watch his music video where there is a shot of the Toronto skyline and comment "hey that's the tower from the Views album!"
Americans will not like to hear this but outside of USA Chicago is not a big deal. NYC is. Toronto may be an international city but it is not important either to the rest of the world.
Iconic cities:
NYC
London
Paris
Tokyo
No one calls Chicago Iconic in a NYC, London sense. But it has maintained a level of stature and Global importance that has been addressed in statistical charts here. Some Torontonian boasting might want to see Toronto's arrival and growth has it be iconic? But in reality, this thread is merely comparing 3 cities. That basically became just two. It's not about either being compatible in stature to NYC or a London.
I don't know why you say Americans use the term Iconic for Chicago? But in its contribution to the US is surely noteworthy and it still has level of importance with global levels as still a Top 3 American city. But NYC and London are the Top cities in the whole world in all measurements of importance.
Drake is one of those artists that is kind of annoying and a bit of a poser and you don't really want to like him but you just can't help it because some of his stuff is pretty good. He's not the best, but still very good. There's no denying that he's huge. I think his main demographic is white suburban teenage girls though.
Side note: I have actually seen Drake perform in person at Governors ball music fest in NYC. I was not really a fan of him live, for reasons I will not get into here though. I will just say he seemed very fake and not into the crowd at all. Almost like he didn't wanna be there. There's more reasons but I don't want to get too into this right now.
And while I don't think it matters how many celebrities are from a certain city, Drake is definitely responsible for bringing a lot of international attention to Toronto. He's always talking about "the 6" in his songs. Most people in the US when they think of Toronto they probably just know Drake, and maybe the crackhead mayor that made news a while back.
i'm not one to usually defend drake as i'm not a fan of his music (i'm a hiphop head but was never a drake fan to be honest). i more so like nas, jadakiss/the lox, ghostface, pete rock and cl smooth, krs-one, etc. pretty much the ny east coast/boom bap sound is my cup of tea.
but i'll save the music talk for another thread.
anyone that is denying drake's popularity needs to really stop living under a rock. this guy was just nominated for 13 american music awards. the most by any artist ever (he beat MJ's records). i am in no way saying he's on MJ's level (just putting that out that before someone comes in here and twists my words around).
yes a canadian artist was just nominated for 13american music awards. let that sink in...
and i heard today that he ranks 3rd all time among rappers with most top 10 billboard hot 100 entries (or something like that). and he hasn't even been in the game for 10 years (has he?). again, let that sink in....
dude has really elevate and popularized the toronto music scene. putting on producers, and singers and other rappers for the city.
The population of the Chicago area is up 89,926 since 2010. Slow growth, but not decline. The city has also gained about 25,000 people since then and numerous neighborhoods are growing.
In fact, 58 of the 77 community areas of Chicago lost population between 2000 and 2010, but 41 of them have reversed the trend and have grown since 2010. In fact, the majority of the areas still losing people are just a few now between 2010 and 2014 compared to many of them between 2000 and 2010. Completely different trend now. The greater downtown area in this time has seen population growth at around or over 5%, which is not that different from a city like San Francisco.
Those figure indicate decline. If the Chicago area (I'm assuming you mean the metro/Chicagoland which has a metro population of nearly 10 mill) grew by just 90k in the last 5-6 years, that's pretty bad. That is unfortunately super slow growth and one can consider it decline in comparison to previous population growth stats for the city and metro in the years prior.
And now you have the city itself which grew by just 82 people in the past year, not to mention the 700+ murders its about to have within the week or so.
The Chicago Public School situation, the pension crisis, etc. if you look all what's going on in Chicago compared to the good old years and of course Toronto doing so well in several areas, the first word that comes up to me for Chicago is "decline".
No one is saying Chicago is now Detroit or the equivalent of a 3rd world ghetto city.
Relative to all other large US cities, and Toronto, Chicago is in decline. It's declining from a powerful place, but it's still in decline.
This is what the numbers tell us, regardless of business activity in your little sector of the city.
People are moving away from the city of Chicago in much higher numbers than they are moving away from any other large city in the United States. This is not a sign of health, and indeed the first sign of stagnation/decline.
You mean the Toronto Stock Exchange? The third largest stock exchange in the Americas and the largest energy/mining exchange in the world? Where over 75% of the world's gold is traded?
And as for UofT, I'm perfectly fine with its world rankings, it's a top notch university in an incredible setting in downtown Toronto.
I wholeheartedly agree, famous people are not relevant in city discussions. Eminem is from Detroit, does that make Detroit better than every other city from which there isn't a comparably popular artist? Of course not.
But Drizzy...this guy has repped Toronto hard - to the point where he put the CN Tower on his album cover (the best selling album of 2016 by far). People watch his music video where there is a shot of the Toronto skyline and comment "hey that's the tower from the Views album!"
So I will defend him.
You make Toronto sound like Birmingham AL. Only cities with not much going for them would name a musical artist as pne of its greatest assets.
If I lived in Minneapolis and I wanted to let people know how vibrant and financially powerful,why would I ever bring up Prince?
If YOU think Toronto is one of the worlds greatest cities in the world like Paris,London,NYC,etc,then why degrade its?
Some of you are completely irrational when it comes to Toronto and its rise in the last decade,
As Toronto is Canada's main city its understandable that it would have a certain degree of international status,but its got some ways to go in many areas before I would put it up with NYC<PARIS<LONDON<HONG KONG,etc.
Drake is big because he is pop.I like some of his stuff but he is not making music for the ages.He will be forgotten soon enough and another be hot temporarily.
He is not and will never be Kanye West who Drake cites as one of his inspirations before getting into music.
Never heard one other rapper say that about Drake.
Many cities are run poorly but have so much that keeps it relevant.If Chicago was as bad that it was in decline,companies would be leaving in droves before the population left.
Chicago simply crushes Toronto in the amount of influential people of the world.
Chicago is iconic.It has a very diverse economy and a corporate base very few cities can match.
F500 Headquarters
1 Walgreens Boots Alliance 19
2 Boeing 24
3 State Farm 35
4 Archer Daniels Midland 41
5 United Continental 80
6 Allstate 81
7 Mondelēz International 94
8 Exelon 95
9 McDonald's 109
10 Sears Holdings 111
11 US Foods 122
12 AbbVie 123
13 Abbott Laboratories 138
14 Illinois Tool Works 211
15 CDW 220
16 RR Donnelley 255
17 Navistar 281
18 Discover Financial 283
19 W. W. Grainger 285
20 Baxter 286
21 Univar 315
22 Tenneco 334
23 LKQ Corporation 369
24 Dover Corporation 377
25 Anixter 391
26 Baxalta 420
27 Jones Lang LaSalle 436
28 Old Republic International 442
20 Packaging Corporation of America 446
21 Motorola Solutions 451
22 Ingredion 456
23 Arthur J. Gallagher 471
24 Essendant 477
32 Telephone and Data Systems 496
There is not ONE company in Toronto that can match a company like Boeing.Which moved from Seattle several years ago.A city in decline wont have companies move to it.
Detroit was a one industry town.Not the same or close as I said before:the jobs left before the people.
You are completely grasping at straws trying to find some correlation to the cities finances and its viability as a city that competes globally.You are so transparent.
Yes the Toronto Stock Exchange is important.To Canada.And yes to a small degree the world but the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is one of a kind and what is done there does not happen anywhere else in the world
T
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Today, CME is the largest options and futures contracts open interest (number of contracts outstanding) of any futures exchange in the world, including any in New York City. The Merc trades several types of financial instruments: interest rates, equities, currencies, and commodities. It also offers trading in alternative investments, such as weather and real estate derivatives. As a Designated Self-Regulatory Organization (DSRO), the CME had primary regulatory-audit authority over firms such as MF Global.
Chicago just does not have U of C.It also has Northwestern, which is one of the top institutions in the world also and several nationally ranked smaller colleges like DuPaul
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it is available in many places outside of Canada. 
You, marothisu and Facts Kill Rhetoric. Both deserve to be among the next C-D $500 winners.
But in reality, this thread is merely comparing 3 cities. That basically became just two. It's not about either being compatible in stature to NYC or a London. 
