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No itsrelevant to Toronto and Canada, but not in comparison to Chicago which competes with several American cities for international travel.Much of which is not counted because many people who travel to the U.S. vivit more than one city,Particularly leisure travlers who may arrive in one city and travel to another,This is not as common in Canada as you have less large cities and they are far apart.Chicago is a very cheap city to get to.
If it's irrelevant then why ask for proof in the first place. Sounds like backtracking to me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by UScityUrbanCores
Ok Iconic for Canada and Toronto. But in the WORLD? Really, in the age of 200 story buildings? It is merely as Chicago's Willis(Sears) and John Hancock observatory decks. It is merely like that. But no doubt the CN Tower and Chicago early Super-Tall skyscrapers. Still they have warrant for TOURIST to visit for sure. But NY day now? Some Western hemisphere city will get a skyscraper taller. It's inevitable.
Which skyscraper has 200 stories?
The CN Tower is the top 10 tallest free standing structure in the world and it tallest in North America. Until another western hemisphere city builds something taller (and even after one is built) it will still remain iconic for its height and history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UScityUrbanCores
There is FAR MORE to a city then Population. Just look at MUCH SMALLER SF in Stats without Silicon Valley.
SF is actually growing. It's a very expensive city to live in while Chicago is an affordable city. Yet the more expensive city is growing and the more affordable one is shrinking.... that should really tell you something about the health and future of each city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu
You cannot even answer a simple question, even after I set aside the population debate (which isn't even accurate, yet you can't even see that). You cannot even produce one official statistic besides population to back your own argument up. You're nothing less than a troll who is inept with understanding cities.
Really, go on thinking that the city is in decline when the GDP increased at a higher percentage in the last 5 years than NYC and the same as Boston. Go on thinking the city is in decline when the unemployment is at near 10 year lows and at the same levels as 1999 and 2000 when there was an economic boom across the country. Go on thinking the city is in decline when the richest man in Asia just broke ground last month on an 1100 foot tall tower with units minimum of $1M and over $200M worth of them went into contract before the ground breaking - and he picked Chicago for his first ever project in North America over NYC, LA, San Francisco, Toronto, etc. I'm sure the 18th richest man in the world, Wang Jianlin, would like to hear from Mr. Burns on City Data about why investing $1B in Chicago is not a good idea.
What the bloody hell are you talking about? Every year from 2010 to 2014 grew. The only year since 2010 that did not have growth was from 2014 to 2015. The net from 2010 to 2015 is growth - a net growth of 24,958 people to be exact.
There are tons of parts of the city that are currently growing, as I've stated before - and no, not only just downtown or on the north side.
2010 (Decennial Census): 2,695,598 people
2011: 2,707,123 people
2012: 2,714,844 people
2013: 2,718,789 people
2014: 2,722,407 people
2015: 2,720,556 people
Honestly, you are embarassing yourself for people who actually understand what's happening in Chicago right now. You have ZERO idea about anything happening in the city. All you know is one number, which you don't even put it in context like above. You don't even understand why one HUGE part of the city is booming, another part is stagnant, and another part is losing people - but the net is still a gain. Do yourself and visit the city. You'll be surprised at how much is actually happening. But oh, Mr. Burns sitting in Toronto must know more than marothisu sitting in Chicago right now. Do you seriously think you know more about this **** than me?
How is Mr Burns embarrassing himself? The information that he presented is factual and you just proved it. I just crunched the numbers and the city of Chicago's year-over-year population change for the years provided above is as follows:
2010 to 2011: +11,525 residents
2011 to 2012: +7,721
2012 to 2013: +3,945
2013 to 2014: +3,618
2014 to 2015: -1,851 (Cook County: -10,000)
A decrease every year. Is this trend not decline? The much higher murder counts (nearly 700 year to date) shootings (nearly 4,000 year to date) this year as well as segregation ain't helping either.
Chicago added 24,958 in 5 years (in comparison Toronto grew by 38,000 in 2013 alone).
Can you present the "tons of parts of the city that are currently growing" in Chicago outside of Downtown and the North Side?
I visit the city annually and outside of downtown and immediate areas surrounding it, and North Side areas like Lincoln Park, I literally see decay and decline. I also look online and all I see is several articles of people leaving Chicago for greener pastures and the decline of what the city once was:
Maybe you have something different that shows where these 25,000 people moved to in Chicago in a total of 5 years (outside of the Loop and the North Side as you say)?
If it's irrelevant then why ask for proof in the first place. Sounds like backtracking to me...
Which skyscraper has 200 stories?
The CN Tower is the top 10 tallest free standing structure in the world and it tallest in North America. Until another western hemisphere city builds something taller (and even after one is built) it will still remain iconic for its height and history.
SF is actually growing. It's a very expensive city to live in while Chicago is an affordable city. Yet the more expensive city is growing and the more affordable one is shrinking.... that should really tell you something about the health and future of each city.
How is Mr Burns embarrassing himself? The information that he presented is factual and you just proved it. I just crunched the numbers and the city of Chicago's year-over-year population change for the years provided above is as follows:
2010 to 2011: +11,525 residents
2011 to 2012: +7,721
2012 to 2013: +3,945
2013 to 2014: +3,618
2014 to 2015: -1,851 (Cook County: -10,000)
A decrease every year. Is this trend not decline? The much higher murder counts (nearly 700 year to date) shootings (nearly 4,000 year to date) this year as well as segregation ain't helping either.
Chicago added 24,958 in 5 years (in comparison Toronto grew by 38,000 in 2013 alone).
Can you present the "tons of parts of the city that are currently growing" in Chicago outside of Downtown and the North Side?
I visit the city annually and outside of downtown and immediate areas surrounding it, and North Side areas like Lincoln Park, I literally see decay and decline. I also look online and all I see is several articles of people leaving Chicago for greener pastures and the decline of what the city once was:
Maybe you have something different that shows where these 25,000 people moved to in Chicago in a total of 5 years (outside of the Loop and the North Side as you say)?
You have some vendetta against Chicago to the extent it is TROLLING in any thread that Chicago and Toronto are in. It is over and over your aim to demean this Great city as a means to BOAST and somehow BOOST Toronto's status over it? What are you really gaining?
Others show stats on Chicago as even Great European cities had declines in population in some years. It has become baiting us to keep replying with stats you CAN'T REFUTE and attempt to keep population your only one?
I'd say if Toronto SURPASSED CHICAGO in all things. Please move on to a new city for Torontonians as yourself to keep demeaning. Your beating this population alone stat to death. and OMG. really, you know the Steve Harvey show in Toronto?
Other STATS you never comment on. Give some or them some feedback. Like ��
Quote:
Originally Posted by UScityUrbanCores
Chicago has been increasing yearly, and to 52 million + now. Hitting that total in 2015 that was a rise of nearly 5 percent over the prior year It is becoming quite the tourist and business destination. Also for families.
Also your international stat for Chicago is OFF as of 2015 and from the publication of this article.
Chicago surpassed the 50 million mark for domestic visitors annually for the first time in 2015, with a rise of nearly 5 percent over the prior year, tourism officials said.
International visits reached 1.55 million in 2014.***
Among domestic visitors to Chicago in 2015, 39.3 million were leisure visitors, with the rest business visitors. Chicago by the Numbers October 2016
***Key trends include:
The Chicago (city) economy has expanded by an estimated 12,016 jobs, a 1.0 percent year-over-year improvement since August 2015, driven by absolute gains in the leisure & hospitality (+5,655), business services (+3,018), and retail (+1,347) sectors. The construction sector experienced the largest YOY growth in percentage terms (+5.4%).
Unemployment insurance claims and unemployment rate decreased by a respective 9.1 percent and 0.3 percentage points.
The number of new hires in the Midwest increased by 85,000 year-over-year from 1.09M in July 2015 to 1.17M in July 2016.
The number of patents issued in Chicago (city) increased by 5.5%, from 1,264 in September 2015 YTD to 1,334 in September 2016 YTD.
.***NONE OF THIS SHOWS A CITY IN DECLINE.***
Apparently Chicago CAN LOOSE POPULATION and still GET SMARTER like increasing Patents and have a expanding economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu
If you cannot understand why economic data is more important for showing the health of a city, then you do not deserve one bit to be in any discussion about this. Only a complete amateur would ignore numbers that indicate near 10 year low unemployment, a rising GDP, a rising median household income more than other cities and in the same range as others, a fast rising upper middle class (median household income), and a fast reducing lower class and think these don't mean a healthy city.
Last edited by UScityUrbanCores; 11-13-2016 at 09:08 AM..
If you don't distinguish between Alpha++, Alpha+, Alpha, and Alpha-, and just call them all alpha cities, then London and NYC would be equal to Boston and San Francisco.
This is not the case at all.
So you think Toronto is equal to Hong Kong,NYC and London ?And you think i have a flawed way of thinking??
Saying "let's put population aside" is saying "let's ignore the #1 indicator of decline".
You can't put it aside.
If Chicago is not in decline and a healthy city as you claim, then why is it losing residents every year? Why are people moving away from Chicago to other cities?
Why is Chicago the only city out of the US top 15 to show an annual decline in population?
Why aren't people flocking to Chicago in droves? They're flocking to San Francisco, they're flocking to NYC, Houston, Los Angeles...why not Chicago?
Its called the SUNBELT!!Even NYC isint booming like those cities.And you keep repeating whats not even true Chicago has not had an annual decline in population.He already gave you the link to the Census.
Pupulation is NOT the number one indicator.ECONOMY IS!!!You know but you just dont want to admit it.
Chicago might be in decline, I know other cities are catching up,
it is still ahead of both Toronto and Montreal but the gap is narrowing
with each passing year.
People like throwing around GDP numbers, but be careful,
2 different countries here, Canada tends to down play,
USA (ala Trump tends to pump up), remember stats can be skewed/manipulated.
Chicago GDP is obviously larger but not as much as some posters think.
Toronto is in the province of Ontario....Ontario GDP is in the 750 billion dollar range,
Ontario population is about 13.6 million,
Toronto Golden Horseshoe (approx equivalent to a US CSA) is about 3/4 of the Ontario population.
So it's GDP is probably around 500 billion.
Interestingly, Chicago is in Illinois, population similar to Ontario (a bit less),
and Chicago's ratio of population is also similar but with a slightly higher GDP.
Toronto will pass Chicago, probably in about 15 to 20 years.
It snot just about GDP as it was pointed out earlier.Chicago economic clout Toronto will never have due to the Chicago Board and Trade and the Mercantile Exchange.Its is simply essential to the world.
Chicago ha several companies ranked rather high in the Global 500.Toronto has a few but they are less and ranked near the bottom.
Illinois only has Chicago but Detroit,Minneapolis-St,Paul and Milwaukee are 1-5 hrs away by car.Detrooit stull has a huge auto industry as well as many other companies headquartered there.
Chicago current dollar GDP is $610 million
that aint a "guess"
If it's irrelevant then why ask for proof in the first place. Sounds like backtracking to me...
Which skyscraper has 200 stories?
The CN Tower is the top 10 tallest free standing structure in the world and it tallest in North America. Until another western hemisphere city builds something taller (and even after one is built) it will still remain iconic for its height and history.
SF is actually growing. It's a very expensive city to live in while Chicago is an affordable city. Yet the more expensive city is growing and the more affordable one is shrinking.... that should really tell you something about the health and future of each city.
How is Mr Burns embarrassing himself? The information that he presented is factual and you just proved it. I just crunched the numbers and the city of Chicago's year-over-year population change for the years provided above is as follows:
2010 to 2011: +11,525 residents
2011 to 2012: +7,721
2012 to 2013: +3,945
2013 to 2014: +3,618
2014 to 2015: -1,851 (Cook County: -10,000)
A decrease every year. Is this trend not decline? The much higher murder counts (nearly 700 year to date) shootings (nearly 4,000 year to date) this year as well as segregation ain't helping either.
Chicago added 24,958 in 5 years (in comparison Toronto grew by 38,000 in 2013 alone).
Can you present the "tons of parts of the city that are currently growing" in Chicago outside of Downtown and the North Side?
I visit the city annually and outside of downtown and immediate areas surrounding it, and North Side areas like Lincoln Park, I literally see decay and decline. I also look online and all I see is several articles of people leaving Chicago for greener pastures and the decline of what the city once was:
Maybe you have something different that shows where these 25,000 people moved to in Chicago in a total of 5 years (outside of the Loop and the North Side as you say)?
LOL.All Garbage what you posted.Trying to stretch to find ANYTHING to prove a useless point.BTW its going on 2017.Using data from the last Census is ridiculous.You know there was thing called a RECESSION back in 2007 that lasted several years.
Dont care what it sounds like to you.
I asked for proof because I was not sure and that poster rarely give links or correct stats.
Truth is everything you just wrote can be found in several booming cities. Especially LA and any Southern city.Decay is simply a part of American cities where people always looking for the newest and latest.
Funny how you didnt know much of Chicago is gentrifying as you missed those articles:
Cities that are in decline dont gentrify and create jobs.Why are you there so often since its declining?business I assume?
I dont even live in Chicago and never have but I realize what it is and you guys dont see and deal with business and leisure travelers like I do that want to go to Chicago.I used to woner why myself years ago because so much of my family lives there.Some of them have moved South but only because of the cold.
If Canada had provinces in the warmer climates Toronto would not be booming.
Maybe you have something different that shows where these 25,000 people moved to in Chicago in a total of 5 years (outside of the Loop and the North Side as you say)?
I have posted more than once on here how 31 of those areas that lost population between 2000 and 2010 have now gained people since 2010, reversing the trend. This does not count areas like downtown that were already gaining people. Did you not listen to me? No obviously you didn't. You have it in your head that there's only a few parts of town gaining people when it's not true - there's actually a lot and even numerous parts on the south side have now seen growth since 2010.
I'll produce a map for you today using 2014 ACS data versus 2010 decennial census data so you can see what I'm talking about, and hopefully you can look at it with an actual objective mind instead of being biased.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjun18
How is Mr Burns embarrassing himself? The information that he presented is factual and you just proved it. I just crunched the numbers and the city of Chicago's year-over-year population change for the years provided above is as follows:
2010 to 2011: +11,525 residents
2011 to 2012: +7,721
2012 to 2013: +3,945
2013 to 2014: +3,618
2014 to 2015: -1,851 (Cook County: -10,000)
A decrease every year. Is this trend not decline?
Holy crap. The data in your post shows an increase every year but one and all you can say is "a decrease every year." Do you seriously listen to yourself talk? Even the net between the first year and last year is an increase.
You'd probably be better off going back to 1st grade to learn basic math again. Even my 10 year old nephew (who doesn't live in Chicago nor has ever been there, so he wouldn't be invested in being biased) would know how full off **** you are right now. I didn't know they were letting elementary school kids on this site now.
Last edited by marothisu; 11-13-2016 at 09:55 AM..
As for Chicago's level of international visitors. Torontonians like to declare their city is the NYC (main and largest, most important city in ALL of Canada). We all know Chicago is NOT the USA's Main and most important city. That is NYC. It gets FAR more then Toronto or Chicago. Also boasting Toronto has far more NEW international immigrants then Chicago. It gets family members from back in their homeland to visit.
That's not a strong argument IMO. Chicago is arguably the 3rd premiere city (and has been for a while) in the most powerful nation in the world that has 9-10x more population than Canada and is the unofficial capital of the Midwest... a region of 60+ million people.
Canada only has 36 million people. For Chicago to get the int'l visitor #'s it does is pretty much a bit disappointing considering how much clout it has compared to Toronto.
If Toronto is the "NYC" for a country of 36 million people, then Chicago is the "NYC" for a region of 60+ million in a much larger, more powerful country.
Really For Chicago to STILL get 1.3 million as seen as just too much closest to NYC they Chose FIRST. Even LA with all Hollywood gives the world and SF as a city on many visitors to the US radar too.
Toronto is NOT doing far enough more then Chicago who has to split with MANY other US cities and even Orlando Fl. for Disneyworld, Vegas, Etc.
Seems there is also a reason? You leave out TOTAL yearly visitors tourist numbers. Maybe because Chicago has been increasing yearly, and to 52 million + now. Hitting that total in 2015 that was a rise of nearly 5 percent over the prior year. It is becoming quite the tourist and business destination. Also for families.
That's nice. People are coming to Chicago for visits... but to move and live there? Things are going in the opposite direction. The numbers speak for themselves.
Also your international stat for Chicago is OFF as of 2015 and from the publication of this article.
Chicago surpassed the 50 million mark for domestic visitors annually for the first time in 2015, with a rise of nearly 5 percent over the prior year, tourism officials said.
Choose Chicago, the city's convention and tourism bureau, said U.S. visitors to Chicago reached a record 50.97 million last year.
The total number of visitors,including international, is expected to exceed a record 52 million.
International visits reached 1.55 million in 2014. Just for comparisons sake: 1.75 million overnight visitors came from overseas to Toronto in 2015 (This does not include an additional 2.48 million overnight visitors came from the U.S.)
Among domestic visitors to Chicago in 2015, 39.3 million were leisure visitors, with the rest business visitors. Chicago by the Numbers October 2016
NYC is THE WORLD'S CITY TODAY. As for the rest you list? To escape the upper Midwest WINTERS. Is why the US Midwest is the less desirable region in growth in the US.
Then why is the Twin Cities (the coldest metropolitan area in the U.S.) growing more than Chicago?
All these "50+ million visitors" stats indicate is Chicago is a nice city to visit (I agree with that), but the droves of people leaving and overall population decline, staggering YOY crime rate, segregation, poor public school system, taxes, corruption etc., indicate it's not a place where people want to live anymore. It all comes down to one word = "decline".
Chicago didn't suddenly wake up and have winter for the first time in the 2000's. There was always cold snowy winters in Chicago. Yet the city was growing, healthy and had a bright future in the past decades. The same winters from those days are still here and now the city is not what it once was due to various problems that were outlined in previous posts. Let's not blame the same winters that were here for centuries. Toronto, Montreal etc. all experience similar if not worse winters and have been forever.
"Modest growth" Chicago is behind Indianapolis, Cincy, Minny, KCMO, etc. in population growth.
Toronto and especially Vancouver. Are your southern most Major cities. Just too much of the US to choose today with milder weather. Again Chi-Town is transitioning and changing in its demographics and showing "it ain't gonna decline no more as ALL Northern US cities did in these past decades". It is showing modest growth as previous decades show Up and down years since the 1950s.
I guess an average increase of 5,000 per year for the last 5 years for a city of 2.7 million is considered modest growth to you. To me, it looks like next to nothing, and in recent years reports have indicated decline. I don't know about you but these charts below indicate decline:
You know things have gone downhill for your city when Detroit and Cleveland are growing more than you.
Chicago happens to be in the USA's Rust-belt as it was called. It overcame declines of the 60s 70s Loss of Industry and Radical Racial change more then other cities in this Rust-belt extending from southern Wisconsin to Eastern Pennsylvania. But did not include East Coast cities. As said before too. NYC was bankrupt by 1975. The US government bilked it out with loans President Ford was pressured to agree to. It certainly never looked back with international investments that poured in. Chicago always had to rely on its OWN investing in itself and Corporate America never turned its back on the city. Heck, it got 3 of the World's Super-Tall buildings in 1968-1975. They anchored the downtown to fill-in and restore ever since. Most believe that 150 story+ Skyscraper is still coming.
We are talking about today and recent years. Not 1975. And why is 1970's NYC brought in the conversation to make Chicago look like its not in decline?
And all that Rustbelt talk holds little to no weight. The way you are saying things is like all rust belt cities on going down hill which isn't the case. Some are actually doing well while a few (Chicago for example) are in decline for a number of reasons. The U.S. Census Bureau charts above speak for themselves.
Here is an interesting Chicago Tribune article comparing Toronto and Chicago's transit systems and the directions that each are heading in. It gives you an idea on the decline the city of Chicago unfortunately faces: Oh, Canada! Toronto beats Chicago on transit with more riders, funding - Chicago Tribune
It will be interesting to see what happens in Chicago over the next 4 (or 8 years) under President Donald J. Trump.
mrjun - what do you have to say to the fact that Chicago has near 10 year unemployment lows and about equal to that of 1999 and 2000? Does this mean a city is in decline?
I just asked my 7 year old niece to review this. She's pretty clever with numbers unlike her Uncle Krisps. She seems to think each number is less than the previous year's number. This stuff's way over my head, I must defer to her.
Would any schools allow adults into 1st grade math classes? I'd certainly be interested.
I know you're trying to be a smart ass, but please stop. We're all in trouble if we think that 2,714,844 is less than 2,707,123.
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Maybe because Chicago has been increasing yearly, and to 52 million + now. Hitting that total in 2015 that was a rise of nearly 5 percent over the prior year. It is becoming quite the tourist and business destination. Also for families.
Most believe that 150 story+ Skyscraper is still coming.