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This is very much what I expect and understand regarding Atlanta. We’re not saying it doesn’t have people from various part of the diaspora it’s just that objectively it’s a very small %. The linguistics and even racial admixture isn’t as diverse and it’s just not as pluralistic. So to someone like her who’s probably never been to Detroit or St Louis ATL will feel very generic. Especially when your from a place black Americans tend to avoid, and thus the culture is more locally entrenched or perhaps “preserved” and sheltered/insular/closed off. These women can tell it’s not as diverse ethnically and I feel it just being in DC, like DCs black population is diverse but honestly it doesn’t even feel close to Boston in that area. Especially because so much of the at balck diversity is in the suburbs that aren’t actually DC.
It truly doesn’t feel that diverse within blacks or even the whites compared to where I’m from. Boston area and NYC area have enclaves- the Boston area MUCH less so- but virtually anywhere you go in the Boston area with a significant concentration of black people youre gonna find a wide wide variety of people. When I attended my private middle school in Boston the first three black male teacher I had were 1) Senegalese born in France, 2) Cape Verdean born in Boston housing projects 3) and a half Nigerian/half black American from Cleveland.
The biggest unique enclaves you’d find of black ancestry in greater Boston would be Haitian in Mattapan, Cape Verdean in Uphams Corner, various west African in Lowell, Liberians in Providence (CSA) and Ghanaians in Worcester (CSA). But in all those places the black population isn’t not majority that ethnicity, but a noticeable plurality. I think the NYC area due to its size has more true enclaves.
But just in the Boston City Council race last year we had a Black Honduran, African Americans, a Somali, a Ugandan, A Bajan-Jamaican, two Cape Verdeans Cape Verdean, two Afro-Dominicans. It’s just standard to us.
From a mathematical viewpoint Atlanta is about average or even slightly below average in balck diveristy, but I’m sure from a MEDIAN viewpoint it’s above and in raw numbers it’s about tied with the Boston area, of course once you go to the CSA level-Boston easily outstrips it. And down at the city level- Boston out strips it in raw # too. You can see that in the ancestry on the census website. Atlanta doesn’t have one group as dominate but it also lacks groups Boston has like Angolans, Kenyans, Ugandans, Cape Verdeans and Bajans. And that’s despite their black population being being 4x larger.
I wouldn’t comment on the Atlanta food situation but I have another (former) friend a Trini from Boston doesn’t here and she made a similar post on Facebook about the food. Idk I don’t find Boston food all that amazing. Some nice spots, good diversity if good for sure but quality to price is not very good ino. And late night food is trash. Food overall just tastes better in Baltimore and DC than up there if you ask me.
In Baltimore it is much more affordable and easy to access quality restaurant and that makes dining more fun than in Boston where I subsisted largely off of mom and pop beef patties , Italian subs, roti, doubles, haitian patties, banh mi, Greek pizza, and Dunkin’ Donuts. Because they were abundant options at low price points
I don't know if there's a huge difference in feel but I've never gone anywhere in the Atlanta metro where there weren't foreign born black people. From my perspective, they're everywhere in Atlanta. I don't see how someone could miss them personally. Maybe because we have a higher black population overall it may seem harder to point out the differences between different black ethnicities.
Do foreign born Black people in America identify with being Black American? The diversity being discussed seems to not ask or answer that question. In most cultures, people of the same nationality and ethnicity stick together because of their commonalities. They speak the same language or know certain customs and traditions. Their parents would be pleased if they brought home a potential partner from their own ethnic background. Ethnic background can mean country, tribe, etc.
Black people are not monolithic. We exist all over the world and have many differences. I have spoken to Black Americans about Boston and they say the Black culture there is really Caribbean culture versus Black America culture which was born in the south. Culture in a city is going to be a direct reflection of the ethnicity and background of those living in that city.
Would Black Americans in Atlanta notice a lack of Caribbean or African people? I think the reason Black people from Boston or NYC notice the lack of people from foreign countries in a city like Atlanta is because they identify with one of those Caribbean or African cultures and it may be missing from Atlanta based on who they encountered. The same is true for Black Americans when they visit ethnic neighborhoods in Boston or NYC that may be full of people from different African cultures or Caribbean cultures, but their customs and traditions may not align with Black American culture which has its roots in the south.
To flip this question, do other countries count their Black Americans in their countries? In Nigeria or Jamaica, do people say their cities have diversity if they have Black Americans living there? It’s an interesting question because we are asking it here in America. I wonder if people ask that around the world?
Last edited by MDAllstar; 10-12-2022 at 11:43 AM..
^To be fair, not every Black American strictly has roots in the South. So, even among Black Americans, things can vary. I'm not referring to say someone born in the North or out West to parents from the South, but some Black people have direct roots in the Northeast, for instance as well. An example of this is W.E.B. DuBois, who was born in western MA(Great Barrington) to people with direct, long time roots in nearby parts of NY and that part of MA.
^To be fair, not every Black American strictly has roots in the South. So, even among Black Americans, things can vary. I'm not referring to say someone born in the North or out West to parents from the South, but some Black people have direct roots in the Northeast, for instance as well. An example of this is W.E.B. DuBois, who was born in western MA(Great Barrington) to people with direct, long time roots in nearby parts of NY and that part of MA.
Yes, but what is his family culture? Serious question because I don’t know. What are they like and what do they identify with? Customs, traditions, food, etc. if not what people typically call Black American culture that has its origins in the south.
Do other countries measure their Black resident diversity like we do here in America? It’s a question we haven’t discussed. Would someone ask about Black Jamaican diversity for Kingston, Jamaica and count how many Black Americans live there, Nigerians, South Africans, etc.?
Yes, but what is his family culture? Serious question because I don’t know. What are they like and what do they identify with? Customs, traditions, food, etc. if not what people typically call Black American culture that has its origins in the south.
From what I've read, his family appears to have been similar to what was going on in that community. So, that just shows that while the general consensus is that Black Americans have roots in the South, that isn't the case for all Black Americans or at least solely so.
From what I've read, his family appears to have been similar to what was going on in that community. So, that just shows that while the general consensus is that Black Americans have roots in the South, that isn't the case for all Black Americans or at least solely so.
What was the Black culture of that community? Was it similar to the White culture? Even in 2022, Black people usually identify with who they grew up around. I’m sure we all have encountered that through our lifetimes meeting different Black people that didn’t identify with typical Black culture because they weren’t exposed to it.
I don't know if there's a huge difference in feel but I've never gone anywhere in the Atlanta metro where there weren't foreign born black people. From my perspective, they're everywhere in Atlanta. I don't see how someone could miss them personally. Maybe because we have a higher black population overall it may seem harder to point out the differences between different black ethnicities.
The difference in concentration is just that big. It likes How people from ATL or DC might come to Boston and say there are "no black people". There are of course- plenty... but the concentration and what you are used to is just THAT different.
Take a look at the names of the Black players that are top football recruits in Massachusetts...
Let's Look at some of the latest or most notable black NBA players from Mass:
Michael Carter-Williams.. Cambridge MA- Mixed Race ADOS Black/White
Noah Vonleh.. Haverhill MA -Liberian
Nerlens Noel..Malden MA -Haitian
Georges Niang..Methuen MA -Sengalese/White
Wayne Selden.. Roxbury (Boston) MA - Bajan/Native American
Bruce Brown.. Dorchester (Boston) MA -ADOS
Bonzie Colson...New Bedford MA (father from Washington DC)- ADOS/Cape Verdean
Terance Mann.. Lowell MA - St. Lucian
Terrence Clarke (honorarily drafted, had signed to Klutch Sports before his untimely passing)..Roslindale (Boston) MA- Bajan
Shabazz Napier.. Roxbury/Randolph MA- Puerto Rican/Haitian
Jeff Adrien.. Boston MA- Haitian
Travis Best.. Springfield MA- ADOS
Patrick Ewing.. Cambridge MA- Jamaican
Rumeal Robison.. Cambridge MA - Jamaican
Dana Barros.. Mattapan (Boston) MA - Cape Verdean
Jared Terell.. Weymouth MA- ADOS
L.J. Figueroa.. Lawrence MA- Dominican *G-League*
Marcus Zegarowski.. HamiltonMA- Mixed ADOS Black/White*G-League*
Jermaine Samuels.. Franklin MA- ADOS *G-League*
AJ Reeves.. Roxbury (Boston) MA- ADOS *G-League*
~David Duke.. Providence RI(CSA)- Liberian~
Now some of these ADOS may actually be West Indians... and I just don't know but names like Isaiah, Datrell, and surnames like Likely, Wilkins, Williams and Jones and what areas they're from in the state kind of tell me they're ADOS.
Its a huge difference compared to anywhere I've been to south and west of New York
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 10-12-2022 at 01:04 PM..
What was the Black culture of that community? Was it similar to the White culture? Even in 2022, Black people usually identify with who they grew up around. I’m sure we all have encountered that through our lifetimes meeting different Black people that didn’t identify with typical Black culture because they weren’t exposed to it.
I'm not completely sure, but the community was small and likely not much different than what occurred there. With that said, it is obvious that they identified as black people, given his background. So, my point is simply that Black Americans aren't necessarily monolithic.
Do foreign born Black people in America identify with being Black American? The diversity being discussed seems to not ask or answer that question. In most cultures, people of the same nationality and ethnicity stick together because of their commonalities. They speak the same language or know certain customs and traditions. Their parents would be pleased if they brought home a potential partner from their own ethnic background. Ethnic background can mean country, tribe, etc.
Black people are not monolithic. We exist all over the world and have many differences. I have spoken to Black Americans about Boston and they say the Black culture there is really Caribbean culture versus Black America culture which was born in the south. Culture in a city is going to be a direct reflection of the ethnicity and background of those living in that city.
Would Black Americans in Atlanta notice a lack of Caribbean or African people? I think the reason Black people from Boston or NYC notice the lack of people from foreign countries in a city like Atlanta is because they identify with one of those Caribbean or African cultures and it may be missing from Atlanta based on who they encountered. The same is true for Black Americans when they visit ethnic neighborhoods in Boston or NYC that may be full of people from different African cultures or Caribbean cultures, but their customs and traditions may not align with Black American culture which has its roots in the south.
To flip this question, do other countries count their Black Americans in their countries? In Nigeria or Jamaica, do people say their cities have diversity if they have Black Americans living there? It’s an interesting question because we are asking it here in America. I wonder if people ask that around the world?
That will depend heavily on the person, their family, their socioeconomic status, their schooling, and what par of the city or state.. In my experience, you have Africans who are super "African" and some who barely know African culture. It's pretty random and its too hard to put a pin on it.
But it's all diversity at the end of the day. They're all gonna have friends of various ethnicities because there is no single dominant ethnicity to be had. Down in ATL or DC they might feel the need to self-segregate more because it's so incredibly African American dominant.
I've met upper-class African children who went to school with AAs who have never been to Africa so it's whatever. I've also met Upper-Class Africans who identify with Africa first and look down on AAs. I've met Lower-Class Africans in Mattapan who fall into all the negative African American tropes. It's just way too hard to pinpoint and say they do this or that.
Ultimately I think they identify as Black but not Black American at least not until the 2nd or certainly by the 3rd generation. For example I have a Cape Verdean aunt- I have no idea where she is from in Cape Verde or if she was born there at all. I don't even know if she speaks Kriolu but I know shes Cape Verdean with a strong Boston Accent and lives in Roxbury... and is boughetto. So my Cousin has a Black American last name like me because she's half Black American(father from NC) and half Cape Verdean.. were in our late 20s and have never discussed ancestry.
One major difference between African Americans in Boston and elsewhere is African-Americans elsewhere are way more concerned about the ethnicity of Black people than what i was accustomed to where that assumption is you will not have the same ethnic background. and it felt and still feels like Black Turmpism the level of concern I see black people have over that. I can't say it feels normal to me yet. At the very least it feels at least a little ol' skool or rigid. You find people like this who are black and feel you should kind of respect those cultures for what they are and not pressure them one way or the other.
I've probably read a thousand+ articles on Boston none of them have ever discussed fractures in the black community by ethnicity. But I think that's the result of 1) we've always had a large West Indian population dating back to the beginning of our history and throughout history so that "border" is very porous..In Atlanta and even DC that immigration pattern is a whole lot more recent and 2) being such a minority relative to white we don't have the luxury. It's also why Hispanics and Asians tend to vote and endorse black candidates and visa versa in Boston. Strength in numbers.
Yes, but what is his family culture? Serious question because I don’t know. What are they like and what do they identify with? Customs, traditions, food, etc. if not what people typically call Black American culture that has its origins in the south.
The Berkshire culture then was small free blacks, and many of them mixed race. That really hasnt changed much tday. Most of the black people I know who have lived in Berkshire are from New York State/Canada or Boston and don't have strong in the south. But nearly ALL of them are non-west-Indian or non-African. DuBois was mixed race balck and white over many generations. Talked about it in the black cutlure thread but back then race mixing was relative 'okay' in Massachusetts, especially in a place like Great Barrington which if you haven't been is basically a small hamlet of early American culture. most all the blacks have moved to Pittsfield MA north of there.
But needless to say, knowing who WEB DuBois was I think its more than safe to assume he identified with black culture/people. lol.. I've been to one of his Namesakes
Im also good friends with a black manfrom Albany whom I met in college. He always associated with New England and cant find a record of his family in the south. he says his family has always been in the Albany-Pittsfield MA area going back centuries and that his family consisted of many free blacks.
You might also remember Bostons one time mayor, Kim Janey, descended from a long line of Black Nova Scotians and had one greta grand parent from Guyana as well.
Not entirely uncommon to find blacks in Boston descended from Canadians like Sam Langford
Born in Nova Scotia, his grandfather was a former slave from the USA who helped settle Weymouth Falls.[8] Langford left home as a youth to escape an abusive father.[8] He made his way to Boston where he eventually found work as a janitor in a boxing gymnasium at the Lenox Athletic Club. Not long after he started working he was sparring and improving his own boxing skills. He won the amateur featherweight championship of Boston at age 15.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Do other countries measure their Black resident diversity like we do here in America? It’s a question we haven’t discussed. Would someone ask about Black Jamaican diversity for Kingston, Jamaica and count how many Black Americans live there, Nigerians, South Africans, etc.?
Other Caribbean countries are not only 12% black and don't receive that type of migration. but Id have to guess how they would do it? African countries count by the tribe.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 10-12-2022 at 01:06 PM..
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