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Still impressive what Toronto attained in a shorter period of time. With far less setbacks US cities went thru. Montréal really is not the lessor today. It had its heritage preserved and has History among the furthest back among North American cities. Why it gets favorable comments also. It did have the declines Toronto did not.
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If you talk to most Montrealers they will tell you that fighting to retain #1 status in Canada (which may have been futile anyway) would have required the city to sell its soul. (Even moreso than it has already.)
And in any event, #1 status from coast to coast in Canada is largely irrelevant to most people in both Montreal and Quebec as the city is still #1 as far as our frame of reference is concerned in this part of the country/world.
It's the truth and history. Enough links highlight it.
Is there a reason its a bit offensive to Canadians? To highlight Toronto having a Golden Spoon that was a Perfect Storm of steady growth? History is truth.
Apparently it is worst of the slights like common-glass high-rises mentioned etc. Really, history of Toronto's evolution. Should not be seen negatively. Or should it?
Still impressive what Toronto attained in a shorter period of time. With far less setbacks US cities went thru. Montréal really is not the lessor today. It had its heritage preserved and has History among the furthest back among North American cities. Why it gets favorable comments also. It did have the declines Toronto did not.
I would think you would be proud of Montréal's bounce back and hosting a Summer Olympics in 1976. I mentioned too.
Few things are ever attributed to one singular 'event' - there are usually a chain of them. I think it is fair to say that many cities could have 'golden' spoons as you say that have supported them in their histories. That being said, there are other deliberate actions that cities can take to improve their situation. In the case of Toronto, I don't think it is different than many other cities. In fairness though, in comparison to many cities in the U.S it has an advantage in terms of growth - ESPECIALLY in the last few decades as Canada continues to take in more immigrants than the U.S in relative terms yet, there are much fewer larger cities in Canada they can go to. I actually think Toronto may be benefitting from attracting even more highly qualified/trained immigrants who may be shying away from the U.S in the age of Trump. See what I wrote further about events in the U.S actually supporting economic ascension of Toronto.
When I talk about population growth I wasn't talking about when Toronto exceeded Montreal in population, I was referring to the fact that for a long time prior to the Separatist movement in the 70's Toronto already had signs it was 'closing' in on Montreal economically. The events of the 70's just accelerated what was already happening. What it also did was widen the gap in Toronto's favour over time. So don't mistaken me for dismissing that Toronto 'benefitted' from the movement - just that it wasn't the only factor.
Eisenhower's interstate system also benefitted Toronto because it created a network of transportation links between it and The U.S that ate the lunch of the St Lawrence Seaway and trade via sea and Montreal. Now suddenly Trucks were able to bring goods to and fro T.O - a city in a strategic position relative to the U.S in terms of land transportation. The GTA produces almost half of Canada's manufactured goods and exports about 3/4's of that to the U.S. The Separatist movement had little to nothing to do with this, geography and infrastructure development in both the U.S and Southern Ontario did.
What makes you think i'm not 'proud' of Montreal. The city is doing very well and has firmly planted itself as the second most important in the country and more importantly to Montrealers and Quebecers, the most important in Quebec and French Canada. I don't really see Montreal and Toronto competing with one another anymore tbh. As a matter of fact, I think it is more important to the city of Montreal and the province of Quebec that it retains its position as a French Canadian metropolis and not just a metropolis that needs to compete with Toronto. Culture is another big example of influence - Toronto has NIL influence on Montreal and Quebec in terms of culture - Montreal is by far the most influential French Canadian cultural juggernaut - this is more important to Quebecers than having a bigger airport in Montreal over Toronto.
Finally, I don't think Toronto is 'aiming' to overtake anyone. It is really people like us looking at data and stats and coming to such conclusions - not the 'will' of the city. Due to a multitude of factors, Toronto is a growing city on our continent in two countries that share probably more similarities with one another than with any other country in the world - I think it is natural people draw such comparisons. Let's face it - it is fun to compare, why else would we be in C v C!?
The 1976 Olympics were not in a "bounce back" period for Montreal. They were almost precisely at the twilight of the period when it was Canada's dominant city. The last hurrah. The swan song.
When Montreal was awarded the games in 1970, most people if you would have asked did not have much of an inkling that Toronto would have overtaken it one day. All of the signs were certainly there if you were paying attention, but hardly anyone noticed. Not even people in Toronto, I'd argue.
After the period of decline that began in the 70s and 80s and extended into the 90s, Montreal actually did not start bouncing back in earnest until the first years of the 21st century.
Re Dave I think he has a rolodex of repetition in his arsenal but I still enjoy his posts actually. When you read them in full and just assume it more from the rolodex - every once in awhile there are these little golden nuggets lol..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
After the period of decline that began in the 70s and 80s and extended into the 90s, Montreal actually did not start bouncing back in earnest until the first years of the 21st century.
Definitely - the economy of Montreal and QC are booming and it looks like this might be something sustained. Last year Montreal CMA attracted over 66K residents making it the 6th fastest growing metro in Canada/U.S. Soon it'll have to start defending all the banal new condo's going up in the city - or is that already happening lol
Toronto was gaining in population by the late 60s In 1967 Montreal was Canada’s largest city still. However, with the rise of separatism and the eventual election of a Parti Québécois government in 1976, many large institutions, especially in the financial field, fled Montreal and relocated in Toronto. The huge influx of cash into Toronto from Montreal helped boost its economy while Montreal languished. It did not help that one of Montreal’s mainstay industries, the garment industry, was devastated as in the US by cheap imports from Southeast Asia also. Leaving entire areas of Montreal filled with empty factories and warehouses (like US cities).
Toronto's current skyscraper boom started 10-15 years ago, it had nothing to do with Montreal and separatism. People want to live in downtown Toronto and even despite the boom demand is outstripping supply. Prices are going up substantially year over year.
Montreal is itself in the midst of a growing skyscraper boom right now. I love Montreal and it's exciting to see its skyline start to grow substantially, hopefully with more distinctive architecture.
Wut... uhhh the comparison is on a similar size skyline.. hmmm
So many people on here get very triggered.
So again question still exists, would if be safe to say Toronto could pass Chicagos skyline depth by 2030?
Toronto from a statical standpoint will pass Chicago in almost every category by 2022... at the latest. I thought Dubai built skyscrapers at a quick clip and then I read the numbers on Toronto. Its current pace is just surreal.
That being said...
I've been to both and Chicago's skyline is better (and thats not taking away anything from Toronto). Chicago invented the skyscraper, has significantly more variety in its center piece buildings, makes better use of its urban parks, and just has an overall better layout, and no amount of glitzy glass apartments is going to change that.
Toronto from a statical standpoint will pass Chicago in almost every category by 2022... at the latest. I thought Dubai built skyscrapers at a quick clip, but Toronto's current pace is just unreal.
The poll doesn't lie
If you are referring to skyscraper development this will NOT happen by 2022. Even when every plus 150 m scraper U/C in Toronto is complete in the next few years, it'll still be about 25-30 short of Chicago. You also can't assume Chicago is going to roll over and play dead either. While Toronto is building way more scrapers than Chicago and has been for over a decade, the gap to start with was huge. Toronto is playing catch up. I think it is a high probability that within 10 years if things continue as they are now - Toronto will have more scrapers greater than 150m. I am less optimistic about supertalls. Apparently as development friendly as Toronto is - when it comes to supertalls the NIMBY's crawl out of the woodwork and complain about shadows. How many Supertall proposals have been cut down below 300M or nicked altogether?
On the other hand - I think T.O's skyline should be re-evaluated over the next decade because it'll probably continue to be the most rapidly changing one on the continent. Sure there won't be the layered historical impact that Chicago's has - but in terms of the newest forms and sheer number we should be open minded.
I am less optimistic about supertalls. Apparently as development friendly as Toronto is - when it comes to supertalls the NIMBY's crawl out of the woodwork and complain about shadows. How many Supertall proposals have been cut down below 300M or nicked altogether?
If they're worried about shadowing they can just put an architectural stick on the roof and call it a supertall, like Chicago.
The Toronto skyline has really improved over the past two decades. It is looking great. It still not quite as as impressive as Chicago but its getting close.
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Really, history of Toronto's evolution. Should not be seen negatively. Or should it?
- or is that already happening lol