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Are you defining Northeast and Southeast as coastal? Or coastalish in the cases of Baltimore, Philadelphia and Washington? Because if not, Charlotte, Orlando and even possibly Atlanta should be in the discussion. If you are defining this matchup as purely Atlantic coastal, as it appears, then Jacksonville is in the discussion, as is Tampa. Pittsburgh and Buffalo, though Northeastern, are much further removed from the coast than Atlanta and Charlotte.
To make this a more honest and equitable matchup, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando and Tampa should be included. For Atlanta and Charlotte, they are far less “interior” then places like Buffalo and Pittsburgh, two cities often debated in “Northeast” definitions, and have relatively quick access to the Atlantic. Tampa is on the Atlantic, and Orlando’s expansed metro touches it. The Northeast still wins on cities, but it’s less of a blowout. Tampa can be viewed as superior to Baltimore, while Atlanta and Miami have several unique characteristics that put them on equal/nearly equal footing of Boston and Philadelphia. Orlando is definitively superior to Providence, and Jacksonville narrowly beats it.
To open another can of worms, Baltimore and DC are often placed in the Southeast (see Census, Washington Wizards). If you place them in the Southeast, suddenly it’s:
Northeast: Boston, Providence, Hartford, New York, Philadelphia
Southeast: Baltimore, Washington, Richmond, Virginia Beach, Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, Miami
These are all of the 1 million plus MSAs within 250 miles of the Atlantic coast.
This...
What exactly is the Southeast? Orlando, Jacksonville and Tampa should definitely be included
Are you defining Northeast and Southeast as coastal? Or coastalish in the cases of Baltimore, Philadelphia and Washington? Because if not, Charlotte, Orlando and even possibly Atlanta should be in the discussion. If you are defining this matchup as purely Atlantic coastal, as it appears, then Jacksonville is in the discussion, as is Tampa. Pittsburgh and Buffalo, though Northeastern, are much further removed from the coast than Atlanta and Charlotte.
To make this a more honest and equitable matchup, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando and Tampa should be included. For Atlanta and Charlotte, they are far less “interior” then places like Buffalo and Pittsburgh, two cities often debated in “Northeast” definitions, and have relatively quick access to the Atlantic. Tampa is on the Atlantic, and Orlando’s expansed metro touches it. The Northeast still wins on cities, but it’s less of a blowout. Tampa can be viewed as superior to Baltimore, while Atlanta and Miami have several unique characteristics that put them on equal/nearly equal footing of Boston and Philadelphia. Orlando is definitively superior to Providence, and Jacksonville narrowly beats it.
To open another can of worms, Baltimore and DC are often placed in the Southeast (see Census, Washington Wizards). If you place them in the Southeast, suddenly it’s:
Northeast: Boston, Providence, Hartford, New York, Philadelphia
Southeast: Baltimore, Washington, Richmond, Virginia Beach, Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, Miami
These are all of the 1 million plus MSAs within 250 miles of the Atlantic coast.
Uh oh man. You just opened it up with those Southeastern additions. For the Northeast: Buffalo, Rochester, Pittsburgh, Newark, Jersey City, Wilmington, Bangor, Portland. That's all that I'm doing here. Good post though.
Are you defining Northeast and Southeast as coastal? Or coastalish in the cases of Baltimore, Philadelphia and Washington? Because if not, Charlotte, Orlando and even possibly Atlanta should be in the discussion. If you are defining this matchup as purely Atlantic coastal, as it appears, then Jacksonville is in the discussion, as is Tampa. Pittsburgh and Buffalo, though Northeastern, are much further removed from the coast than Atlanta and Charlotte.
Coastal cities are usually defined as having immediate access to the ocean or a large body of water that leads to the ocean. Baltimore is universally regarded as coastal due to the presence of the Chesapeake Bay. Philly is connected to Delaware bay respectively so it usually gets the nod to being coastal as well. DC is an oddball as the Potomac does indeed connect to the bay but it can't support ocean going ships. Even if we take those attributes away all 3 are well within a 1-2 hour drive from the Atlantic
Charlotte & Atlanta are through and through land locked cities and shouldn't be in this convo, not when it takes 3-4 hours at a minimum to reach the nearest coast
Orlando is technically not considered a coastal despite its physical proximity to the Atlantic as there is no direct water link between it and the ocean, but that's being super nit-picky.
Tampa is through and through a Gulf coast city, not an Atlantic seaboard city
Quote:
Originally Posted by qworldorder
To make this a more honest and equitable matchup, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando and Tampa should be included. For Atlanta and Charlotte, they are far less “interior” then places like Buffalo and Pittsburgh, two cities often debated in “Northeast” definitions, and have relatively quick access to the Atlantic. Tampa is on the Atlantic, and Orlando’s expansed metro touches it. The Northeast still wins on cities, but it’s less of a blowout. Tampa can be viewed as superior to Baltimore, while Atlanta and Miami have several unique characteristics that put them on equal/nearly equal footing of Boston and Philadelphia. Orlando is definitively superior to Providence, and Jacksonville narrowly beats it.
No one considers Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Atlanta or Charlotte eastern seaboard states. The former are associated with the great lakes, and the laters deep south.
Tampa is on the Gulf of Mexico so it shouldn't even be in this discussion. Orlando is a mixed bag as I stated earlier
Quote:
Originally Posted by qworldorder
To open another can of worms, Baltimore and DC are often placed in the Southeast (see Census, Washington Wizards). If you place them in the Southeast, suddenly it’s:
Northeast: Boston, Providence, Hartford, New York, Philadelphia
Southeast: Baltimore, Washington, Richmond, Virginia Beach, Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, Miami
These are all of the 1 million plus MSAs within 250 miles of the Atlantic coast.
Baltimore & DC are historically southern, but we live in the modern times... they culturally and functionally are Mid-Atlantic/Northern cities.
- They are part of the Bos-Was transportation corridor (labeled as northeast)
- They are part of the official northeast megapolis.
- Both receive substantial snow fall (like the northern cities)
- Have predominatnly northern architecture and a have extremely dense urban cores
- Have northern influenced accents
Coastal cities are usually defined as having immediate access to the ocean or a large body of water that leads to the ocean. Baltimore is universally regarded as coastal due to the presence of the Chesapeake bay. DC and Philly have major rivers that lead to the Chesapeake & Delaware bay respectively so they too usually get the nod to being coastal as well. Even if we take those away all 3 are within a 2 hour drive from the Atlantic
Charlotte & Atlanta are through and through land locked cities and shouldn't be in this convo, not when it takes 3-4 hours at a minimum to reach the nearest coast
Orlando is technically not considered a coastal despite its physical proximity to the Atlantic as there is no direct water link between it and the ocean, but that's being super nit-picky.
Tampa is through and through a Gulf coast city, not an Atlantic seaboard city
No one considers Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Atlanta or Charlotte eastern seaboard states. The former are associated with the great lakes, and the laters deep south.
Tampa is on the Gulf of Mexico so it shouldn't even be in this discussion. Orlando is a mixed bag as I stated earlier
Baltimore & DC are historically southern, but we live in the modern times... they culturally and functionally are Mid-Atlantic/Northern cities.
- They are part of the Bos-Was transportation corridor (labeled as northeast)
- They are part of the official northeast megapolis.
- Both receive substantial snow fall (like the northern cities)
- Have predominatnly northern architecture and a have extremely dense urban cores
- Have northern influenced accents
....the list can go on and on and on
Agreed. Saying DC and Baltimore are a part of the south is kind of like calling Chicago and Milwaukee a part of the northwest. It makes no sense in modern times, but did at one point in history.
Coastal cities are usually defined as having immediate access to the ocean or a large body of water that leads to the ocean. Baltimore is universally regarded as coastal due to the presence of the Chesapeake Bay. Philly is connected to Delaware bay respectively so it usually gets the nod to being coastal as well. DC is an oddball as the Potomac does indeed connect to the bay but it can't support ocean going ships. Even if we take those attributes away all 3 are well within a 1-2 hour drive from the Atlantic
Charlotte & Atlanta are through and through land locked cities and shouldn't be in this convo, not when it takes 3-4 hours at a minimum to reach the nearest coast
Orlando is technically not considered a coastal despite its physical proximity to the Atlantic as there is no direct water link between it and the ocean, but that's being super nit-picky.
Tampa is through and through a Gulf coast city, not an Atlantic seaboard city
No one considers Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Atlanta or Charlotte eastern seaboard states. The former are associated with the great lakes, and the laters deep south.
Tampa is on the Gulf of Mexico so it shouldn't even be in this discussion. Orlando is a mixed bag as I stated earlier
Baltimore & DC are historically southern, but we live in the modern times... they culturally and functionally are Mid-Atlantic/Northern cities.
- They are part of the Bos-Was transportation corridor (labeled as northeast)
- They are part of the official northeast megapolis.
- Both receive substantial snow fall (like the northern cities)
- Have predominatnly northern architecture and a have extremely dense urban cores
- Have northern influenced accents
....the list can go on and on and on
I'll speak for Baltimore and say its architecture is more of a Mid-Atlantic regional trend and era at which it developed. Also, snowfall isn't constrained by political boundaries and designation. Finally, the Baltimore accent is unique in and of itself.
I would place Baltimore on the South East side of this debate where it belongs. I would chose the south east due to the better weather, and the cultural diversity of cities in the south.
Coastal cities are usually defined as having immediate access to the ocean or a large body of water that leads to the ocean. Baltimore is universally regarded as coastal due to the presence of the Chesapeake Bay. Philly is connected to Delaware bay respectively so it usually gets the nod to being coastal as well. DC is an oddball as the Potomac does indeed connect to the bay but it can't support ocean going ships. Even if we take those attributes away all 3 are well within a 1-2 hour drive from the Atlantic
Charlotte & Atlanta are through and through land locked cities and shouldn't be in this convo, not when it takes 3-4 hours at a minimum to reach the nearest coast
Orlando is technically not considered a coastal despite its physical proximity to the Atlantic as there is no direct water link between it and the ocean, but that's being super nit-picky.
Tampa is through and through a Gulf coast city, not an Atlantic seaboard city
No one considers Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Atlanta or Charlotte eastern seaboard states. The former are associated with the great lakes, and the laters deep south.
Tampa is on the Gulf of Mexico so it shouldn't even be in this discussion. Orlando is a mixed bag as I stated earlier
Baltimore & DC are historically southern, but we live in the modern times... they culturally and functionally are Mid-Atlantic/Northern cities.
- They are part of the Bos-Was transportation corridor (labeled as northeast)
- They are part of the official northeast megapolis.
- Both receive substantial snow fall (like the northern cities)
- Have predominatnly northern architecture and a have extremely dense urban cores
- Have northern influenced accents
....the list can go on and on and on
This is all nothing more than your extremely narrow and incredibly subjective opinion presented as fact.
You don't get to define what anybody thinks, nor do you get to assign cities to regions. Thankfully, you hardly speak for the general population by any stretch of imagination.
Agreed. Saying DC and Baltimore are a part of the south is kind of like calling Chicago and Milwaukee a part of the northwest. It makes no sense in modern times, but did at one point in history.
I can take Acela to DC. That’s Northeast Corridor. It’s a globally economically dominant part of the world. Other than Atlanta which is somehow excluded in this thread, the southeast has nothing like it.
Are you defining Northeast and Southeast as coastal? Or coastalish in the cases of Baltimore, Philadelphia and Washington? Because if not, Charlotte, Orlando and even possibly Atlanta should be in the discussion. If you are defining this matchup as purely Atlantic coastal, as it appears, then Jacksonville is in the discussion, as is Tampa. Pittsburgh and Buffalo, though Northeastern, are much further removed from the coast than Atlanta and Charlotte.
To make this a more honest and equitable matchup, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando and Tampa should be included. For Atlanta and Charlotte, they are far less “interior” then places like Buffalo and Pittsburgh, two cities often debated in “Northeast” definitions, and have relatively quick access to the Atlantic. Tampa is on the Atlantic, and Orlando’s expansed metro touches it. The Northeast still wins on cities, but it’s less of a blowout. Tampa can be viewed as superior to Baltimore, while Atlanta and Miami have several unique characteristics that put them on equal/nearly equal footing of Boston and Philadelphia. Orlando is definitively superior to Providence, and Jacksonville narrowly beats it.
To open another can of worms, Baltimore and DC are often placed in the Southeast (see Census, Washington Wizards). If you place them in the Southeast, suddenly it’s:
Northeast: Boston, Providence, Hartford, New York, Philadelphia
Southeast: Baltimore, Washington, Richmond, Virginia Beach, Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, Miami
These are all of the 1 million plus MSAs within 250 miles of the Atlantic coast.
Yes as coastal sorry your right I should have added that.
Agreed. Saying DC and Baltimore are a part of the south is kind of like calling Chicago and Milwaukee a part of the northwest. It makes no sense in modern times, but did at one point in history.
No, it's not the same. DC and Baltimore are officially, in modern times, classified as being in the South.
Nowhere (historically or presently) have Chicago and Milwaukee ever been classified as being part of the northwest, so that analogy makes no sense.
So all of you repeating that Baltimore and DC are historically Southern cities, are wrong. They are officially, currently Southern cities.
Now, if you are asking whether they are culturally Southern overall, then the answer is no. People usually classify cities based on cultural similarities, which is why most people won't think of Northern Virginia as Southern, and in popular-culture, the South, really refers to Virginia (outside of NOVA) and south. So using a cultural lens, Baltimore and DC aren't Southern. Most people agree that MidAtlantic is the best classification for them.
However, to say they are only historically Southern is false. They are currently classified by the US Census as being Southern. Again, that doesn't make them culturally Southern.
This is all nothing more than your extremely narrow and incredibly subjective opinion presented as fact.
You don't get to define what anybody thinks, nor do you get to assign cities to regions. Thankfully, you hardly speak for the general population by any stretch of imagination.
If you have such an issue please refute and respond to my opinion then since you seem all the wiser..
Because last time I checked Tampa sits on the Gulf of Mexico not the Atlantic you know.. a fact
Last edited by Joakim3; 08-29-2019 at 05:18 AM..
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