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Nowhere (historically or presently) have Chicago and Milwaukee ever been classified as being part of the northwest, so that analogy makes no sense.
So all of you repeating that Baltimore and DC are historically Southern cities, are wrong. They are officially, currently Southern cities.
Now, if you are asking whether they are culturally Southern overall, then the answer is no. People usually classify cities based on cultural similarities, which is why most people won't think of Northern Virginia as Southern, and in popular-culture, the South, really refers to Virginia (outside of NOVA) and south. So using a cultural lens, Baltimore and DC aren't Southern. Most people agree that MidAtlantic is the best classification for them.
However, to say they are only historically Southern is false. They are currently classified by the US Census as being Southern. Again, that doesn't make them culturally Southern.
Their also not "technically" geographically southern. The midpoint of the east coast falls somewhere in central VA. The only thing Southern about the two is the census designation but by all means....
Location: Watching half my country turn into Gilead
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The Gulf of Mexico IS the Atlantic. And unlike other Gulf Coast cities like Houston and New Orleans, Tampa is located in Florida, which as a state has more Atlantic coastline then any other. No one debates if Florida is an Eastern Seaboard state, so that already strongly suggests including Tampa. Same body of water as Miami, just on a different coast.
Nowhere (historically or presently) have Chicago and Milwaukee ever been classified as being part of the northwest, so that analogy makes no sense.
So all of you repeating that Baltimore and DC are historically Southern cities, are wrong. They are officially, currently Southern cities.
Now, if you are asking whether they are culturally Southern overall, then the answer is no. People usually classify cities based on cultural similarities, which is why most people won't think of Northern Virginia as Southern, and in popular-culture, the South, really refers to Virginia (outside of NOVA) and south. So using a cultural lens, Baltimore and DC aren't Southern. Most people agree that MidAtlantic is the best classification for them.
However, to say they are only historically Southern is false. They are currently classified by the US Census as being Southern. Again, that doesn't make them culturally Southern.
Chicago was at one point a part of the old northwest territory of the U.S., hence why "Northwestern University" is in Evanston, IL and not in WA or ID.
As for Baltimore and DC, they aren't southern culturally, that was my point. Regardless of what that map shows, the reality is they do not function as southern cities today.... but at one point in history, maybe they did more. I laugh when people throw them in the "south" or "southeast" city box in debates like this. In this scenario, considering present times, I'd certainly classify them as northern cities, and if need be call them a grey area to their own (kind of like Texas and south Florida). Also, there are several other maps (for different purposes) that classify both cities as "northeast".I wouldn't take the census map (which is created to evenly distribute population to different sections of the country) too seriously as the "end all be all". That map also definitively calls Texas "south" without distinguishing "southeast", and also doesn't call the southwest or Pacific Northwest regions, even though the majority of people in modern day practice would likely do so.
Furthermore, if I see a map saying that Baltimore and El Paso, TX are in the same region, my response won't be "wow, I guess I'm wrong". My response will be "Wow, this map is ludicrous and should be changed".
Last edited by CCrest182; 08-29-2019 at 10:35 AM..
Chicago was at one point a part of the old northwest territory of the U.S., hence why "Northwestern University" is in Evanston, IL and not in WA or ID.
As for Baltimore and DC, they aren't southern culturally, that was my point. Regardless of what that map shows, the reality is they do not function as southern cities today.... but at one point in history, maybe they did more. I laugh when people throw them in the "south" or "southeast" city box in debates like this. In this scenario, considering present times, I'd certainly classify them as northern cities, and if need be call them a grey area to their own (kind of like Texas and south Florida). Also, there are several other maps (for different purposes) that classify both cities as "northeast".I wouldn't take the census map (which is created to evenly distribute population to different sections of the country) too seriously as the "end all be all". That map also definitively calls Texas "south" without distinguishing "southeast", and also doesn't call the southwest or Pacific Northwest regions, even though the majority of people in modern day practice would likely do so.
Nowhere (historically or presently) have Chicago and Milwaukee ever been classified as being part of the northwest, so that analogy makes no sense.
So all of you repeating that Baltimore and DC are historically Southern cities, are wrong. They are officially, currently Southern cities.
Now, if you are asking whether they are culturally Southern overall, then the answer is no. People usually classify cities based on cultural similarities, which is why most people won't think of Northern Virginia as Southern, and in popular-culture, the South, really refers to Virginia (outside of NOVA) and south. So using a cultural lens, Baltimore and DC aren't Southern. Most people agree that MidAtlantic is the best classification for them.
However, to say they are only historically Southern is false. They are currently classified by the US Census as being Southern. Again, that doesn't make them culturally Southern.
The south begins south of the Rapphannock -- though major cities in Virginia are still coastal, with a long maritime history, so somehow that lumps them in with the northeast. If NC had major cities on the Atlantic coast or even coastal plain, they too would be lumped in "Northeast". Weird labels.
The Gulf of Mexico IS the Atlantic. And unlike other Gulf Coast cities like Houston and New Orleans, Tampa is located in Florida, which as a state has more Atlantic coastline then any other. No one debates if Florida is an Eastern Seaboard state, so that already strongly suggests including Tampa. Same body of water as Miami, just on a different coast.
The Gulf of Mexico is no more hydraulically connected to the Atlantic than is the Mediterranean Sea, and last time I checked we don't call Athens, Greece, or Naples, Italy Atlantic coastal cities.
I've lived in Florida, have family & friends currently in Miami, Tampa & Orlando and virtually no one categorizes Tampa, let alone Houston or New Orleans as Atlantic coastal cities. They are Gulf Coast cities by every definition and metric.
There should be a city data rule that prevents DC, Maryland and the VA crescent from being mentioned in North vs South arguments. On any given day there are multiple threads with people saying the same exact thing and no consensus being reached. When does it end?
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I was referring to where the cities were located after official statehood!
