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Distinction of local culture: Montreal, but close.
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This is not a slag, but I don't think it's really that close.
Montreal is home base for the national-scope culture of Quebec and French Canada which is arguably larger than the national cultures of half the indepdent countries of the world. It's similar in size to the national cultures of places like Sweden, Czech Republic, etc.
Plus it uses a different language and is therefore largely foreign to three quarters of the country (Canada) it sits in.
I doubt that 18 of the 20 most popular TV shows in Philly are produced in Philly. Or that 50% of the music bought by Philly people is produced in the city. That the entertainment and fanzines at supermarket checkouts in Philly are published in Philly. That the biggest national talkshows, newscasts and sportscasts in Philly are produced in Philly.
This is not a slag, but I don't think it's really that close.
Montreal is home base for the national-scope culture of Quebec and French Canada which is arguably larger than the national cultures of half the indepdent countries of the world. It's similar in size to the national cultures of places like Sweden, Czech Republic, etc.
Plus it uses a different language and is therefore largely foreign to three quarters of the country (Canada) it sits in.
I doubt that 18 of the 20 most popular TV shows in Philly are produced in Philly. Or that 50% of the music bought by Philly people is produced in the city. That the entertainment and fanzines at supermarket checkouts in Philly are published in Philly. That the biggest national talkshows, newscasts and sportscasts in Philly are produced in Philly.
That's what Montreal is like.
Fair enough. I said it was close because there is in fact a Philadelphia accent and dialect unlike anything in the US. There is a sports culture, food culture, driving culture, urban dirt bike culture, and so on, unlike anything else in the US. Culturally, it really is a fascinating city. But yes, we still speak the same language as the rest of the country, watch the same television and there is no movement for our state to declare independence. So I guess "close" is a subjective term, but I was just emphasizing that Philadelphia is in fact one of the most culturally distinct cities in the US.
Is 50% of music purchased by Montrealers really produced in Montreal? If so, that is a superb local music culture of which I was completely unaware!
Fair enough. I said it was close, because there is in fact a Philadelphia accent and dialect unlike anything in the US. There is a sports culture, food culture, driving culture, urban dirt bike culture, and so on, unlike anything else in the US. Culturally, it really is a festinating city. But yes, we still speak the same language as the rest of the country, watch the same television and there is no movement for our state to declare independence. So I guess "close" is a subjective term, but I was just emphasizing that Philadelphia is in fact one of the most culturally distinct cities in the US.
Is 50% of music purchased by Montrealers really produced in Montreal? If so, that is a superb local music culture of which I was completely unaware!
Well, music in French is about half the market, and of that share most of it is produced in Quebec (with the rest from Europe of course), and almost all of Quebec's music is made in Montreal. Plus there is music in English that is produced in Montreal that is also popular here.
It may not be exactly half on the button, but it's probably in that range.
I voted Philadelphia more out of ignorance than knowledge: I have to date seen only one large Canadian city up close, and that one was Toronto. (I have also seen Niagara Falls, but that city's a special case).
I look at Philly this way. Philly has the potential to be Boston but its not.Its Philly. I mean in a sese that no other city quite fit with whats Philly is. Its mix of the worst of Detroit,the best of DC and a similar feel of Boston overall.
"Bostroit," CleverOne, "Bostroit."
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Philly if it keeps up its current trajectory will match Montreal one day like I feel Boston already does.
I mean that in quality of life but not in economic strength. I think too many other cities have been growing so much and so fast economically,its just too much competition for Philly to grow as those cities are.
Phillys best bet is to be the best version of itself because it has enough to stand on its own.
I couldn't agree more with your last sentence, and I think most Philadelphians agree with you too. And nothing gets Philadelphians more hot and bothered than others suggesting that this city either wants or is trying to be like New York just up the road. (In one very important area — housing affordability — we strive as hard as we can to avoid that fate.)
I think that we tend to fetishize rapid growth and forget that (a) such growth cannot be sustained over a long period of time (b) where the growth is the result of an economic boom, when the bust comes, the fall can be just as great. I think there's something to be said for an unexciting, slow-growth economy like Philadelphia's, especially when things head south.
(Suddenly, a pair of lines from a current Allstate "Mayhem" TV ad just popped into my head here, and they seem appropriate:
"Mayhem," as the driver's hypercritical mother-in-law: "Well, my son always said you were the safe option."
(Female) Driver: "And that's the nicest thing you've ever said about me!")
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Originally Posted by Muinteoir
I think this is what will surprise many people the most. Montreal is in fact surprisingly affordable. I think it is surprising because Philadelphia is relatively affordable for a large, urban city, and because I think people (subconsciously or not) associate French culture and influence with expensive living.
Through some quick reading, it does appear that Montreal has a cheaper cost of living. I wonder if rents are as cheap in outer neighborhoods as they are in many of Philadelphia's.
Given that the Canadian dollar is worth about 70 US cents, after adjusting for the exchange rate, the rents and house prices below:
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Originally Posted by djesus007
Obviously, It's more expensive if you live in an inner core neighbourhood. With that said, Montreal is indeed affordable. You can find a place for rent in Le Plateau for $800 a month, I've had modern places in downtown Montreal (which is one of the best downtowns on the continent) for $1500 a month (2 bedrooms). In the West Island, which is far from many places, you can buy a 4-bedroom house for under $200,000 (which I know plenty of families who bought here). Obviously a newer condo downtown will be more expensive, because of demand and it's a hot commodity, but it's rare to see prices like this in a major city in North America.
Philadelphia gets major negative points from me for the high crime, systematic poverty and extensive blight. There are a lot of unsafe neighborhoods in Philly and you can feel the fact that the city once had half a million more inhabitants than it does now. Much better suburbs than Montreal though. Also better colleges and universities.
Montreal also gets major bonus points for having health care for all and not much poverty. The francophone language restrictions are a major pain though.
Otherwise the cities are on the same general level.
I voted Philadelphia more out of ignorance than knowledge: I have to date seen only one large Canadian city up close, and that one was Toronto. (I have also seen Niagara Falls, but that city's a special case).
I couldn't agree more with your last sentence, and I think most Philadelphians agree with you too. And nothing gets Philadelphians more hot and bothered than others suggesting that this city either wants or is trying to be like New York just up the road. (In one very important area — housing affordability — we strive as hard as we can to avoid that fate.)
I think that we tend to fetishize rapid growth and forget that (a) such growth cannot be sustained over a long period of time (b) where the growth is the result of an economic boom, when the bust comes, the fall can be just as great. I think there's something to be said for an unexciting, slow-growth economy like Philadelphia's, especially when things head south.
(Suddenly, a pair of lines from a current Allstate "Mayhem" TV ad just popped into my head here, and they seem appropriate:
"Mayhem," as the driver's hypercritical mother-in-law: "Well, my son always said you were the safe option."
(Female) Driver: "And that's the nicest thing you've ever said about me!")
Given that the Canadian dollar is worth about 70 US cents, after adjusting for the exchange rate, the rents and house prices below:
I can tell you for a fact that these recent immigration policies have not affected diversity in Montreal. Fewer immigrants yes, but again, a point I make time and time again on this forum is that Montreal is home to 200+ ethnic groups and 140+ languages. It is easily top 5 for most diverse cities between the U.S and Canada.
Philadelphia gets major negative points from me for the high crime, systematic poverty and extensive blight. There are a lot of unsafe neighborhoods in Philly and you can feel the fact that the city once had half a million more inhabitants than it does now. Much better suburbs than Montreal though. Also better colleges and universities.
Those points are understandable, but these factors not as extensive or endemic across the city as often portrayed, particularly if going by media accounts. Crime does remain stubbornly and frustratingly high in some parts of Philadelphia (often due to unfortunately drug trade/opioid epidemic reasons), but it's by no means evenly distributed, and most Philadelphians live their daily lives with a reasonable sense of safety.
Blight, while still a challenge in some more outlying neighborhoods, has been seeing major reductions with a development boom over the past decade. Again, a majority of the city can be characterized as stable and generally in good-to-fantastic condition. With all due respect, it's a far cry from a city like, say, Detroit, or even Baltimore.
As land values continue to rise, redevelopment/revitalizion is expanding its boundaries to a greater proportion of the city.
Given that the Canadian dollar is worth about 70 US cents, after adjusting for the exchange rate, the rents and house prices below:
Right, I adjusted for exchange rates, and when I did my search (albeit rather quickly and without much knowledge of Montreal real estate), I could only find affordable apartments near the city's core. In Philadelphia, you can get an equally affordable house in the city's core. You know, the ones with no HOAs, little yards and no one else above or below. The affordable houses in Montreal seemed to be on the outskirts. That is what swayed me toward Philadelphia.
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Scenery and outdoor recreation: Again, can't say, but I suspect the Wissahickon Valley may be more of a match for Mount Royal than people imagine.
As a Wissahickon devotee, I can assure you it is no match. I love the Wissahickon, but Mount Royal is out of this world beautiful with stunning views.
Philadelphia gets major negative points from me for the high crime, systematic poverty and extensive blight. There are a lot of unsafe neighborhoods in Philly and you can feel the fact that the city once had half a million more inhabitants than it does now. Much better suburbs than Montreal though. Also better colleges and universities.
Montreal also gets major bonus points for having health care for all and not much poverty. The francophone language restrictions are a major pain though.
Otherwise the cities are on the same general level.
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Originally Posted by Duderino
Those points are understandable, but these factors not as extensive or endemic across the city as often portrayed, particularly if going by media accounts. Crime does remain stubbornly and frustratingly high in some parts of Philadelphia (often due to unfortunately drug trade/opioid epidemic reasons), but it's by no means evenly distributed, and most Philadelphians live their daily lives with a reasonable sense of safety.
This exchange indicates why I think Muinteoir was right to leave crime out of it.
Something I and the arch-contrarian Philly forum regular kyb01 point out frequently when discussions of crime in Philadelphia come up is that actually, Duderino's statement that "most Philadelphians live their daily lives with a reasonable sense of safety" applies even to those of us who, like me, live in "unsafe" neighborhoods.
Anyone who's read Elijah Anderson's "Code of the Streets" should know that there are two parallel cultures operating in many of those neighborhoods, and that it's a struggle for young boys especially growing up in them to avoid interacting with the "street" culture. But if you have a "decent" orientation, it's actually not all that difficult to be untouched by crime even when you live in a rough neighborhood save for when you run across evidence of a crime having occurred such as an instant memorial or mural on a wall where a shooting took place. If you're not interacting with the world of the drug dealers, odds are overwhelmingly in your favor that that world won't really intrude on yours.
And some common crimes in other parts of the city don't take place in neighborhoods like mine because the criminals aren't that dumb. Smash-and-grab car break-ins, for instance, occur far more often in the more affluent neighborhoods closer to the city center than in mine because most people committing such break-ins know they will have slimmer takings up my way.
I invite friends from elsewhere in the city to my apartment regularly. None of them has gotten into trouble save one person who went out to score some weed (I couldn't tell him who the local dealers were). The only other crime that's affected a friend of mine happened when my boyfriend rode his bike over to my place, chained it to the wooden side railing of my front porch, and then left it there when he left. It remained there for the next four days until I came home from work to find it and two of the railing pillars gone on Thursday evening.
There's a cheesesteak shop at a very busy and prominent North Philadelphia intersection that resembles Times Square in its physical configuration but not its other attributes. Ever since it made an appearance in the movie "Creed," tourists have traveled up from Center City to visit it. A tense 20-hour-plus standoff when police came to arrest a drug dealer living in a house one block west of this shop produced gunfire and tied up traffic, but no visitors were harmed or affected, and I have yet to read or hear a story about a visitor to Max's at Erie and Germantown being robbed or harmed.
My standard advice is: Keep your wits about you, don't look like you don't know where you are or where you're going, and you should be just fine.
BTW, four blocks from my own block of two- and three-story rowhouses in varying stages of repair or disrepair you will find a four-block pocket of huge freestanding Colonials, Victorians and Dutch Colonial twins that fetch about $500k when they go on the market. This island of relative affluence is surrounded by much poorer blocks and is a three-block walk from the most dangerous intersection in Northwest Philadelphia crime-wise, the one where I catch the bus to the subway to work every morning and to which I return at night.
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Originally Posted by djesus007
I can tell you for a fact that these recent immigration policies have not affected diversity in Montreal. Fewer immigrants yes, but again, a point I make time and time again on this forum is that Montreal is home to 200+ ethnic groups and 140+ languages. It is easily top 5 for most diverse cities between the U.S and Canada.
So noted. My vote there should change as a result. However, those restrictions may change the relative dynamic going forward. (But only if similar clampdowns enacted by the government in Washington are eased or lifted.)
Though there is something to be said for living in a city where you don't have any concern whatsoever about making a wrong turn, or your car breaking down in the "wrong side of town" at night...
(Or perhaps most importantly, this happening to one of your kids.)
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