Montréal vs Philadelphia - 2020s (size, job, economy, relocating)

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by Muinteoir

As a Wissahickon devotee, I can assure you it is no match. I love the Wissahickon, but Mount Royal is out of this world beautiful with stunning views.

Fair enough. I think the cityscape views from Mount Royal are fantastic, and would surpass such a view from Wissahickon, but as a natural asset itself I think I'd personally prefer the Wissahickon. Just feels much more "immersive."

The cityscape of Montreal generally is impressive, but topographically and in terms of general flora/fauna, Philadelphia's surrounding rolling hills and more temperate/lush Mid-Atlantic climate are much more to my preference.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Pavlov's Dog

Montreal also gets major bonus points for having health care for all and not much poverty. The francophone language restrictions are a major pain though.

Even though I too am less than enamored of the positions of the Québecois nationalists, especially to the degree they reflect the ethnocentricity of most nationalist movements, let me go on record here as acknowledging that the roots of the nationalist tendency in Québec make the movement somewhat defensible.

Ever since the French forces' defeat on the Plain of Jars in 1759 — the event that Québecois license plates remind everyone else that "[they] remember" — Québec has been a culturally and linguistically French island in a culturally and linguistically English ocean. Worse still, from their perspective, the English (and their American offshoots after the Revolution) were both expansionist and evangelical in ways the more stay-at-home French weren't.

The result was that by the time Pierre Vallières lit the fuse with his book "White N****rs of America" (1968), a good chunk of Francophone Québec was already restive as the result of decades of economic rule by a small Anglophone minority and cultural rule by a stultified Roman Catholic Church. "La révolution tranquille" ("the quiet revolution") that the first of a series of Liberal provincial governments launched in 1960 had opened up both the economy and the prospects for prosperity for many Francophone Québecois, but as often happens when the door out of an oppressive room is opened, the resulting gust of air headed outward becomes even stronger. And in that direction lay the FLQ. (Some credit should also be given to France's very nationalist leader at the time, Charles de Gaulle, for stirring the pot when he visited Québec in the year of Expo '67* and issued a ringing cry in favor of a "free Québec.")

The nationalists didn't and likely never will achieve their dream of an independent Québec, as too many Québecois see the same advantages to remaining in Canada that their Quebecker fellow provincials do. But given the cultural dominance of the Anglophone world around it, they can still portray the province as a nation under siege in that one respect and get buy-in for measures to protect it from many of those Québecois.

*That World's Fair is rightly considered by many to be the event that marked Québec's arrival on the world stage.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Ever since the French forces' defeat on the Plain of Jars in 1759 —.

I think you meant the Plains of Abraham. "Jars" is actually the French word for "gander", as in the male of the goose.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Ever since the French forces' defeat on the Plain of Jars in 1759 — the event that Québecois license plates remind everyone else that "[they] remember" — Québec has been a culturally and linguistically French island in a culturally and linguistically English ocean. .

That's the widely-held perception of its significance - even by most Québécois.

Though the motto actually goes back to the 1800s, well prior to the 1960s-1990s push for independence.

The full motto is this:

"Je me souviens que né sous le lys je croîs sous la rose"

I remember that born under the lily I grow under the rose.

The lily is France and the rose is Britain.

But yes the licence plates were changed by a separatist party. But the motto they put on it was not their creation.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Pavlov's Dog

The francophone language restrictions are a major pain though.

The city wouldn't even be close to being as interesting as it is without them, though.

[Muinteoir]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Fair enough. I think the cityscape views from Mount Royal are fantastic, and would surpass such a view from Wissahickon, but as a natural asset itself I think I'd personally prefer the Wissahickon. Just feels much more "immersive."

The cityscape of Montreal generally is impressive, but topographically and in terms of general flora/fauna, Philadelphia's surrounding rolling hills and more temperate/lush Mid-Atlantic climate are much more to my preference.

Yes agreed, fair enough, and when it comes to scenery, it is true, "to each their own." There is no doubt the Philadelphia area is more lush due to its climate, and that the Wissahickon feels much more wild.

I do wonder if you have visited Montreal and the nearby mountains in late September. It is (in my experience) breathtaking. I would love to go back in the summertime, too. In the springtime, though, I will surely take the Philadelphia area.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's the widely-held perception of its significance - even by most Québécois.

Though the motto actually goes back to the 1800s, well prior to the 1960s-1990s push for independence.

The full motto is this:

"Je me souviens que né sous le lys je croîs sous la rose"

I remember that born under the lily I grow under the rose.

The lily is France and the rose is Britain.

But yes the licence plates were changed by a separatist party. But the motto they put on it was not their creation.

That changes the meaning dramatically, and I don't think the Parti Québecois had meant the saying to be interpreted in such a charitable way towards the Anglos, which may be why they truncated it when it replaced "La belle province" on Québec license plates.

But it does adapt well to other circumstances: I used to collect postage stamps as a hobby, and one of the commemorative I had in my collection was a Canada Post stamp honoring Expo 70 in Osaka, Japan.

That commemorative had the cherry-blossom Expo 70 logo next to the one for Expo 67 (which IIRC was a ring of stick figures that represented trees), and beneath the Expo 67 symbol was the legend "Je me souviens / I remember".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

That changes the meaning dramatically, and I don't think the Parti Québecois had meant the saying to be interpreted in such a charitable way towards the Anglos, which may be why they truncated it when it replaced "La belle province" on Québec license plates.

.

Perhaps not, though I am sure they were aware of the full motto when they made the decision. It was easy to find if you went to the trouble of looking for it.

But yes they eliminated the word "province" from the plate and also went from Liberal red to PQ blue.

[Pavlov's Dog]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Those points are understandable, but these factors not as extensive or endemic across the city as often portrayed, particularly if going by media accounts. Crime does remain stubbornly and frustratingly high in some parts of Philadelphia (often due to unfortunately drug trade/opioid epidemic reasons), but it's by no means evenly distributed, and most Philadelphians live their daily lives with a reasonable sense of safety.

Blight, while still a challenge in some more outlying neighborhoods, has been seeing major reductions with a development boom over the past decade. Again, a majority of the city can be characterized as stable and generally in good-to-fantastic condition. With all due respect, it's a far cry from a city like, say, Detroit, or even Baltimore.

As land values continue to rise, redevelopment/revitalizion is expanding its boundaries to a greater proportion of the city.

The same could be said about any city or locale. Most people, even in Capetown, San Salvador or Baltimore can live their daily lives reasonably safely.

Most crime is concentrated in certain geographical and/or ethnic communities. In the US violent crime is overwhelmingly concentrated in the african american and latino communities and can be avoided by most people simply by avoiding those neighborhoods. I guess we can glibly say those neighborhoods can be avoided but clearly people do live there and their lives are highly impacted by this crime. Kids growing up in violent, dysfunctional neighborhoods don't have a choice.

While Canada doesn't have the legacy of slavery and redlining/white flight that the US does it at least seems like they are making an effort to address the root cause of poverty and their social policies and universal health care ameliorate some of the worst symptoms as well. The US has pretty much given up on actually addressing the root causes of issues though. Philadelphia can't be singled out among American cities but marginalizing an issue which is so important to many people. Unfortunately in this regard Philadelphia is a far cry from Montreal.

Given the trends in economics and demographics I wouldn't count on Philadelphia continuing to revitalize. Immigration and births were already way for the US compared to Canada prior to Covid's devastating impact. Most US cities will be lucky to have positive growth this decade.

Montreal is much better positioned to continue to grow given Canada's much more welcoming attitude towards immigrants. Canada has 9% of the US population but 35% of the annual immigration. Montreal is a major destination for immigrants.

I can say first hand that this is the case. My company is adding IT professionals for a strategically important global project in Montreal. The Canadian government support for advances in AI was a main factor but more importantly was the ability to easily bring in IT talent from anywhere globally (also the US). It's also so much easier being an employer in Canada than the US. Dealing with the cost and complexity of health care insurance is a major hassle we don't have to deal with in Canada.

The OP is welcome to use whatever arbitrary or Philadelphia positive metrics he or she desires but that doesn't mean other areas might be vitally important to others in how we compare cities.

[bostonkid123]

are absolute bargains by US standards. In US dollars, that $200,000 house costs you about $140,200, and that $1500/month 2-bedroom downtown Montréal apartment would set you back $1051 and change. Try finding an apartment that cheap in any size in Center City Philadelphia. Keep your American job and salary and telecommute from Montréal and you'll both make out like a bandit and have the best of both worlds, for you will also have single-payer health insurance and can drop your employer-sponsored health plan.

Was waiting for someone to suggest this...

Just fyi for anyone thinking of doing this: do not try the above approach unless you want to get on CRA's blacklist (Canada Revenue Agency, which works very closely with IRS and share data)... If you choose to telecommute and be on U.S. payroll, you will be considered a tax resident of the U.S. and therefore is not eligible for federal and provincial benefits in Canada. In order to enroll in Quebec's single payer health system - Régie de l'assurance maladie du Québec (RAMQ) - you must be registered as a resident of Quebec, which means your payroll needs to be registered in Quebec and pay provincial and federal taxes in Quebec (sticker shock for most Americans given the QC's much higher income tax rate). Been there, done that.

One workaround is if you work as a self-employed contractor, you could be paid in U.S. dollars and then transfer that money to a Canadian bank account in order to spend locally. However, you will still need to declare yourself as a Quebec tax resident during every April tax season (Canadians file taxes on the same timeline as Americans, every April).