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Agree with many of your rankings here. However, I'd rank Economy a tie - much of it contingent on what one considers a "strong" economy; Urbanity a tie; Colleges & Universities edge to Philadelphia; Neighborhoods a tie; Housing a tie - it is better to rent in Montreal, but better to own in Philadelphia; History an edge to Philadelphia; Suburbs a big win for Philadelphia.
Thank you for the feedback!
I wasn't too sure about Montreals suburbs outside of a google maps look so I couldn't make a fair comparison between the two. But I've gotten few responses saying Philadelphia's suburbs are better so I'll change it.
The Colleges University edge Is difficult to answer because there's a lot of variables. A student with a 2.5 GPA; UPenn wouldn't matter. A scenario in which a student lives in a single-parent household and barely received any financial aid would likely chose and benefit greatly from CCP over Drexel, which is listed as a top 100 school in the nation. Yes, Harvard , MIT, Princeton, all prestigious schools, but for me or the Average joe, those are out of our radar. I knew a guy who went to Penn St over Stanford simply because of wanting to be closer to home and having to spend less as a PA resident.
Like I said, it depends on your metrics. There is also less rampant and cyclical poverty in Montreal. This cyclical poverty is certainly not unique to Philadelphia when compared to other US cities, but our problem is quite pronounced given the size of our city and the percent of our residents living in poverty. For me, a strong economy entails social mobility, access to basic needs for all, etc. Montreal is stronger in this regard.
To be fair, Montreal really got its house in order fairly recently. Up until 2003 ish, the poverty rate in the city was at 40%, compared to 18% today and 14% on the island (and I think about 13.7% in the CMA). But before that, Montreal had a very high poverty rate until ~2003. Nonetheless, Philly still has the stronger economy in this one, but I'd say this falls into QOL since it also involves government programs that Quebec offers to help mitigate issues like this.
I wasn't too sure about Montreals suburbs outside of a google maps look so I couldn't make a fair comparison between the two. But I've gotten few responses saying Philadelphia's suburbs are better so I'll change it.
The Colleges University edge Is difficult to answer because there's a lot of variables. A student with a 2.5 GPA; UPenn wouldn't matter. A scenario in which a student lives in a single-parent household and barely received any financial aid would likely chose and benefit greatly from CCP over Drexel, which is listed as a top 100 school in the nation. Yes, Harvard , MIT, Princeton, all prestigious schools, but for me or the Average joe, those are out of our radar. I knew a guy who went to Penn St over Stanford simply because of wanting to be closer to home and having to spend less as a PA resident.
For sure! Philadelphia has some of the best suburbs in NA. Besides the renowned Main Line, we have many other walkable, historic suburbs with little downtowns and rail access to Philadelphia. On the whole, Montreal's suburbs have less character than ours.
For Colleges and Universities, I gave the edge to Philadelphia because not only do we have Penn right in our city, our metro has four top ranking liberal arts colleges: Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr and Villanova. This is not to mention all of the other great universities and colleges in the area (Drexel, Temple, etc.). McGill is a fantastic university, and its affordability for in-province Canadians is a huge bonus. I am less familiar with the other colleges and universities in Montreal, but from what I know, they do not quite stack up to ours.
To be fair, Montreal really got its house in order fairly recently. Up until 2003 ish, the poverty rate in the city was at 40%, compared to 18% today and 14% on the island (and I think about 13.7% in the CMA). But before that, Montreal had a very high poverty rate until ~2003. Nonetheless, Philly still has the stronger economy in this one, but I'd say this falls into QOL since it also involves government programs that Quebec offers to help mitigate issues like this.
That is nearly two decades now, and certainly relevant considering we are comparing contemporary economies. The social programs are entwined with the economy, making it fully relevant in a ranking. Too often GDP or the number of high paying corporate jobs are seen as the end-all in economic rankings. There is a lot more going on, and a lot of people being unaccounted for in such limited analyses.
That is nearly two decades now, and certainly relevant considering we are comparing contemporary economies. The social programs are entwined with the economy, making it fully relevant in a ranking. Too often GDP or the number of high paying corporate jobs are seen as the end-all in economic rankings. There is a lot more going on, and a lot of people being unaccounted for in such limited analyses.
Of course, but Quebec had these programs too even when the poverty rate was high (due to two referendums and companies + people leaving). Even then, Philly does have the stronger economy, that's undisputed. Montreal has a higher QOL due to the safety net provided by Quebec, but there are many issues too. We do have the poorest neighbourhoods in Canada and one of the highest child poverty rates in the country. If we truly had a better economy, these issues would not be here.
For sure! Philadelphia has some of the best suburbs in NA. Besides the renowned Main Line, we have many other walkable, historic suburbs with little downtowns and rail access to Philadelphia. On the whole, Montreal's suburbs have less character than ours.
For Colleges and Universities, I gave the edge to Philadelphia because not only do we have Penn right in our city, our metro has four top ranking liberal arts colleges: Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr and Villanova. This is not to mention all of the other great universities and colleges in the area (Drexel, Temple, etc.). McGill is a fantastic university, and its affordability for in-province Canadians is a huge bonus. I am less familiar with the other colleges and universities in Montreal, but from what I know, they do not quite stack up to ours.
Yes! I minored in French and went to CCP for a year and then got my degree up at Pitt, although Montreal is notorious for having great french schools!
Liberal Arts colleges, I did not take into consideration, but you're correct there. I'd also like to throw in the Arts university, which is still the largest arts school in the country I believe... I also don't know about Montreals community colleges or liberal arts colleges, perhaps someone from there can tell us.
Suburban in different countries means an entirely different thing compared to the US and some cases a suburb is in the city itself, so it's somewhat tricky to measure them up.
Of course, but Quebec had these programs too even when the poverty rate was high (due to two referendums and companies + people leaving). Even then, Philly does have the stronger economy, that's undisputed. Montreal has a higher QOL due to the safety net provided by Quebec, but there are many issues too. We do have the poorest neighbourhoods in Canada and one of the highest child poverty rates in the country. If we truly had a better economy, these issues would not be here.
Well, it is not undisputed, because I am disputing it.
As tempting as it is to get into all of the details about why Montreal has the lower poverty rate, that would take us down the rabbit hole of public policy and politics that belongs in another forum. As noted earlier in the thread, Philadelphia's history is much different than that of Montreal, and we have the unresolved issue of cyclical poverty — a problem of course tied to our unresolved and more pronounced disparities along race lines. It is my view that it is not the people entrenched in this cyclical poverty to blame, but our (not just the city of Philadelphia, but the US as a whole) inability to resolve this ongoing problem. Regardless of why Philadelphia has this issue, it is there, and it is an acute economic problem.
For whatever reason, you seem to be married to the idea that poverty rate is not tied to the category of economy. Yet distribution of wealth, purchasing power, etc. are areas studied by economists, so I cannot figure out why you reiterate it is but a QOL issue.
Last edited by Muinteoir; 05-22-2020 at 11:24 AM..
I did a thorough view of Google Maps on that one searching its suburbs, it tells about 1/10th of the story, but I did like what I saw. TIE was because asking someone what is better is very subjective just like which place has better cuisine. Everyones preferences in these would be different.
I have family in the Montreal suburbs and I am from the suburbs of Philadelphia.
Biggest differences: Montreal metro area is a lot smaller and the suburbs (not to be mean) are offer less in virtually every category when compared to the Philadelphia suburbs.
And I get the subjective part, but this is one of the few categories in this thread that Philadelphia safely wins. The Philadelphia burbs are larger, more varied, more walk-able, more amenities, more recreation, more shopping, more unique history, better architecture, etc. Not to say those characteristics do not exist in the Montreal region, but not to the level of Southeastern PA. The only thing possibly lacking in Philadelphia burbs is overall diversity, since most of the best towns are overwhelming white.
I have family in the Montreal suburbs and I am from the suburbs of Philadelphia.
Biggest differences: Montreal metro area is a lot smaller and the suburbs (not to be mean) are offer less in virtually every category when compared to the Philadelphia suburbs.
And I get the subjective part, but this is one of the few categories in this thread that Philadelphia safely wins. The Philadelphia burbs are larger, more varied, more walk-able, more amenities, more recreation, more shopping, more unique history, better architecture, etc. Not to say those characteristics do not exist in the Montreal region, but not to the level of Southeastern PA. The only thing possibly lacking in Philadelphia burbs is overall diversity, since most of the best towns are overwhelming white.
Do the suburbs in montreal extend into the city? The term suburban is different in other countries where some cities' suburbs are within the city itself. Outside of Darby and Yeadon , majority of Delco is white until you hit Chester, which is also counted as a suburb? I don't know too much about ChestCo, so I will hold off on talking about its diversity other than the city of Chester.
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