Grouping Deep South Cities (map, highest, quality, largest)
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He’s right though. People that like to bash the South love to view the region as Mississippi and Alabama since they’re the states that have least prospered. Even though Alabama has an underrated growing economy. Anyway, these two states are some of the least populated in there American South yet that’s what they want to view the south as. I even heard someone say Atlanta isn’t culturally the south because it not hick anymore. To make matters worse, as you can tell in threads like this, southerner boomers listen to this and try to find ways to groups their cities apart from the south. That’s even more embarrassing to me.
He’s right though. People that like to bash the South love to view the region as Mississippi and Alabama since they’re the states that have least prospered. Even though Alabama has an underrated growing economy. Anyway, these two states are some of the least populated in there American South yet that’s what they want to view the south as.
Louisiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, Arkansas, West Virginia, and Oklahoma are all less populous than Alabama. All except Louisiana have smaller GDPs also.
Alabama has 2M more people and an economy twice as large as Mississippi.
Alabama is grouped with Mississippi because they are neighbors, look like mirror images of each other in terms of state boundaries, and have similar politically regressive reputations stemming from the Civil Rights era in particular.
Louisiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, Arkansas, West Virginia, and Oklahoma are all less populous than Alabama. All except Louisiana have smaller GDPs also.
Alabama has 2M more people and an economy twice as large as Mississippi.
Alabama is grouped with Mississippi because they are neighbors, look like mirror images of each other in terms of state boundaries, and have similar politically regressive reputations stemming from the Civil Rights era in particular.
Precisely.
I think outsiders looking in at these 2 states are mostly focus on themes of social progress overall. Specifically from all the convos on here & few other online forums. Questions tend to flow back & forth on socializing aspects.
I mean, fair enough? But Texas' population was small during the civil war, moreover, Dallas was in its infancy during the civil war. In 1860, Dallas had a population under 1000. Memphis had 23,000; and NOLA 170,000. I wouldn't really say Dallas had grabbed its culture at the time, but I'm sure there's room for disagreement.
I'm not saying Dallas isn't Southern, it just has elements of western and even midwestern, to me. Dallas has almost the same percentage of hispanics as PHX and feels like a shinny new sunbelt city (I guess like Atlanta in some facets as well, but also like Phoenix on that front).
The bulk of Dallas Black population came after the civil war. During the time of the civil War the largest concentration of Black people in the state were in Northeast Texas/ Houston/ and the communities alongside the Brazos river. That's where majority of the plantations and enslaved people were and during the civil-war. You can actually still see the remnants of slavery clear as day in parts of Fort Bend County to this day. Even though Dallas came a little latter into the picture it quickly established a Black culture in the state that eclipsed smaller older communities in Texas. DFW was a railroad HUB then and attracted many former slaves and eventually their kids to the region. Same with Houston even though Houston had an older established Black community than DFW. Still there was never a doubt in Black people moving from more rural areas in the south to the bigger cities that they were migrating out of the south.
That's why comparing DFW to the likes of Kansas City or Chicago as a transient city makes no sense to me. Just from a Black historical perspective. When Black people from Mississippi/Tenn/East Texas/Arkansas migrated to cities in the midwest like Chicago or Kansas City they knew they were leaving the south. This was not the case for cities like Dallas or Houston.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal
I was talking about areas around after the civil war, none of place besides New Orleans would qualify as major city during the Civil war. but rather by the turn of century
in 1920
Dallas was 158,976
Memphis was 162,351
Phoenix was 29,053
One of them is not like other. Phoenix didn't really become a major city until after 50's.
I was stating after civil war Blacks stated migrating to cities Dallas like Memphis was in a state that previously had slavery. Free slaves played a part in founding neighborhoods in these cities. This didn't happen in Phoenix. AZ didn't have a large black population after the civil war. Phoenix itself is one completely different timeline.
As far Hispanic growth as stated that is very recent. It's not as deep rooted as place like LA or Miami. The Hispanic population did not pass the black population until the 90's. As DFW grow it has becomes more diverse cosmopolitan. In Phoenix the Hispanic community had a larger presence historically.
But To me calling a place too cosmopolitan to be southern. speaks volumes to how people look down of the south. DFW is now over 7 million a place it size should evolve to have people from cultures everywhere. Just as Metro Atlanta is a lot more diverse than Birmingham. but but I'm just pointing out the history
Any Black community established in post Civil War Dallas was founded by former slaves. Was Phoenix Black community built like this? Highly doubt it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below...
How closely people seem to cling to the Southern title seems to depend solely on whether or not you have black skin. Black posters seem to cling much harder to it being a strictly southern thing and less open to the idea that a place can be southern but something else as well. I am not black so I dont understand that perspective, but I also dont want to minimize it.
Its just a different approach, not wrong, but different. What that underscores to me is that we simply need to be understanding and willing to listen to how someone from a different race might see a place different culturally.
I think there's a legitimate reason for that. The South is generally considered the "Motherland" for general African American culture. For most of African American's history here in America majority of our time was spent and attached to the South. By 1910, 89% of All African Americans lived in the South and 80% of those African Americans lived in rural areas throughout the south. The Great Migration and 2nd Great Migration took place from 1916-1970s. Blacks in droves moved to urban cities all across America. Of course with that came segregation and a gang of other discriminating policies many decades after the initial migration. With that comes a segregated society eventually having a different experience and a different perspective of how they view themselves and their place in the local community. If one is cast outside of the dominant populace of the city then they'll eventually begin to identify themselves differently. If many Black people for instance migrated from rural areas that were unmistakably southern then moved to Dallas where they eventually have to segregate from the Whites of that city, exactly how do you think they'll see themselves? What culture what they gravitate to? The dominant society or the one they're accustom to which was considered southern. And keep in mind they were raised by former slaves who many were brought to Texas from other Deep Southern states where they didn't experience any difference in the way of life. Same experiences you had in Mississippi you had them as soon as you landed in East Texas.
Now of course over time cultures evolve and take shape but the foundation still remains the same. Coming from East Texas and having Family and friends in DFW and Houston and generally interacting with Black residents of both cities I always thought the cities were southern first and foremost. I thought geographically it did resemble areas that would be considered Great Plains but culturally the demographic I knew the most that's what I associated the city with. But I'm well aware that DFW is more than just southern especially considering it's a cosmopolitan city with a significant transplant/immigrant community.
I think there's a legitimate reason for that. The South is generally considered the "Motherland" for general African American culture. For most of African American's history here in America majority of our time was spent and attached to the South. By 1910, 89% of All African Americans lived in the South and 80% of those African Americans lived in rural areas throughout the south. The Great Migration and 2nd Great Migration took place from 1916-1970s. Blacks in droves moved to urban cities all across America. Of course with that came segregation and a gang of other discriminating policies many decades after the initial migration. With that comes a segregated society eventually having a different experience and a different perspective of how they view themselves and their place in the local community. If one is cast outside of the dominant populace of the city then they'll eventually begin to identify themselves differently. If many Black people for instance migrated from rural areas that were unmistakably southern then moved to Dallas where they eventually have to segregate from the Whites of that city, exactly how do you think they'll see themselves? What culture what they gravitate to? The dominant society or the one they're accustom to which was considered southern. And keep in mind they were raised by former slaves who many were brought to Texas from other Deep Southern states where they didn't experience any difference in the way of life. Same experiences you had in Mississippi you had them as soon as you landed in East Texas.
Now of course over time cultures evolve and take shape but the foundation still remains the same. Coming from East Texas and having Family and friends in DFW and Houston and generally interacting with Black residents of both cities I always thought the cities were southern first and foremost. I thought geographically it did resemble areas that would be considered Great Plains but culturally the demographic I knew the most that's what I associated the city with. But I'm well aware that DFW is more than just southern especially considering it's a cosmopolitan city with a significant transplant/immigrant community.
This is true. But to AsAbove’s point, there’s also a historic white population in the south and that population has its own identity. Southern Baptism is the dominant religion in most of the South for a reason. The exceptions being South Louisiana, Houston, South and West Texas, and southern Florida. The accent and language, values and traditions, gun culture.
This is true. But to AsAbove’s point, there’s also a historic white population in the south and that population has its own identity. Southern Baptism is the dominant religion in most of the South for a reason. The exceptions being South Louisiana, Houston, South and West Texas, and southern Florida. The accent and language, values and traditions, gun culture.
It made absolutely no sense to exclude Houston from the Bible Belt on that map.
The bulk of Dallas Black population came after the civil war. During the time of the civil War the largest concentration of Black people in the state were in Northeast Texas/ Houston/ and the communities alongside the Brazos river. That's where majority of the plantations and enslaved people were and during the civil-war. You can actually still see the remnants of slavery clear as day in parts of Fort Bend County to this day. Even though Dallas came a little latter into the picture it quickly established a Black culture in the state that eclipsed smaller older communities in Texas. DFW was a railroad HUB then and attracted many former slaves and eventually their kids to the region. Same with Houston even though Houston had an older established Black community than DFW. Still there was never a doubt in Black people moving from more rural areas in the south to the bigger cities that they were migrating out of the south.
That's why comparing DFW to the likes of Kansas City or Chicago as a transient city makes no sense to me. Just from a Black historical perspective. When Black people from Mississippi/Tenn/East Texas/Arkansas migrated to cities in the midwest like Chicago or Kansas City they knew they were leaving the south. This was not the case for cities like Dallas or Houston.
Any Black community established in post Civil War Dallas was founded by former slaves. Was Phoenix Black community built like this? Highly doubt it.
I think there's a legitimate reason for that. The South is generally considered the "Motherland" for general African American culture. For most of African American's history here in America majority of our time was spent and attached to the South. By 1910, 89% of All African Americans lived in the South and 80% of those African Americans lived in rural areas throughout the south. The Great Migration and 2nd Great Migration took place from 1916-1970s. Blacks in droves moved to urban cities all across America. Of course with that came segregation and a gang of other discriminating policies many decades after the initial migration. With that comes a segregated society eventually having a different experience and a different perspective of how they view themselves and their place in the local community. If one is cast outside of the dominant populace of the city then they'll eventually begin to identify themselves differently. If many Black people for instance migrated from rural areas that were unmistakably southern then moved to Dallas where they eventually have to segregate from the Whites of that city, exactly how do you think they'll see themselves? What culture what they gravitate to? The dominant society or the one they're accustom to which was considered southern. And keep in mind they were raised by former slaves who many were brought to Texas from other Deep Southern states where they didn't experience any difference in the way of life. Same experiences you had in Mississippi you had them as soon as you landed in East Texas.
Now of course over time cultures evolve and take shape but the foundation still remains the same. Coming from East Texas and having Family and friends in DFW and Houston and generally interacting with Black residents of both cities I always thought the cities were southern first and foremost. I thought geographically it did resemble areas that would be considered Great Plains but culturally the demographic I knew the most that's what I associated the city with. But I'm well aware that DFW is more than just southern especially considering it's a cosmopolitan city with a significant transplant/immigrant community.
I think Houston was “apart of the Great Migration” via the influx of Louisiana migrants.
The bulk of Dallas Black population came after the civil war. During the time of the civil War the largest concentration of Black people in the state were in Northeast Texas/ Houston/ and the communities alongside the Brazos river. That's where majority of the plantations and enslaved people were and during the civil-war. You can actually still see the remnants of slavery clear as day in parts of Fort Bend County to this day. Even though Dallas came a little latter into the picture it quickly established a Black culture in the state that eclipsed smaller older communities in Texas. DFW was a railroad HUB then and attracted many former slaves and eventually their kids to the region. Same with Houston even though Houston had an older established Black community than DFW. Still there was never a doubt in Black people moving from more rural areas in the south to the bigger cities that they were migrating out of the south.
That's why comparing DFW to the likes of Kansas City or Chicago as a transient city makes no sense to me. Just from a Black historical perspective. When Black people from Mississippi/Tenn/East Texas/Arkansas migrated to cities in the midwest like Chicago or Kansas City they knew they were leaving the south. This was not the case for cities like Dallas or Houston.
Any Black community established in post Civil War Dallas was founded by former slaves. Was Phoenix Black community built like this? Highly doubt it.
I think there's a legitimate reason for that. The South is generally considered the "Motherland" for general African American culture. For most of African American's history here in America majority of our time was spent and attached to the South. By 1910, 89% of All African Americans lived in the South and 80% of those African Americans lived in rural areas throughout the south. The Great Migration and 2nd Great Migration took place from 1916-1970s. Blacks in droves moved to urban cities all across America. Of course with that came segregation and a gang of other discriminating policies many decades after the initial migration. With that comes a segregated society eventually having a different experience and a different perspective of how they view themselves and their place in the local community. If one is cast outside of the dominant populace of the city then they'll eventually begin to identify themselves differently. If many Black people for instance migrated from rural areas that were unmistakably southern then moved to Dallas where they eventually have to segregate from the Whites of that city, exactly how do you think they'll see themselves? What culture what they gravitate to? The dominant society or the one they're accustom to which was considered southern. And keep in mind they were raised by former slaves who many were brought to Texas from other Deep Southern states where they didn't experience any difference in the way of life. Same experiences you had in Mississippi you had them as soon as you landed in East Texas.
Now of course over time cultures evolve and take shape but the foundation still remains the same. Coming from East Texas and having Family and friends in DFW and Houston and generally interacting with Black residents of both cities I always thought the cities were southern first and foremost. I thought geographically it did resemble areas that would be considered Great Plains but culturally the demographic I knew the most that's what I associated the city with. But I'm well aware that DFW is more than just southern especially considering it's a cosmopolitan city with a significant transplant/immigrant community.
They brought with them their own establish culture that's recognize with southern roots. The contrast will be those with northern roots ( minority portion). At the start of the great migration these people wouldn't be raised by former slaves, that's 3-5 generations from those who were raised by that generation.
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