Phoenix, AZ vs. Denver, CO (cost, skyscrapers, NYC, living)

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Gfitz1010

This seems pretty accurate to me. Some Phoenix resident seem like they have something to prove, which is kinda understandable since for years their city has been discredited on here. Maybe because there aren’t a lot of Denver posters on this forum but it seems like they don’t go as hard. Denver was pretty affordable up until the 2010s though. Definitely wasn’t as expensive as it is now.

Something to prove versus silly and inaccurate generalizations are totally different things. Phoenix does seem to get a lot of the latter.

[Gfitz1010]

Originally Posted by locolife

Something to prove versus silly and inaccurate generalizations are totally different things. Phoenix does seem to get a lot of the latter.

Not really? Some of you seem like you want to prove that those generalizations are exaggerated and that’s okay. I’ve lived in both so I know them pretty well. Both kinda get inaccurate generalization on C-D from people I bet have only had experiences on Google Maps. You can usually tell.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Gfitz1010

Not really? Some of you seem like you want to prove that those generalizations are exaggerated and that’s okay. I’ve lived in both so I know them pretty well. Both kinda get inaccurate generalization on C-D from people I bet have only had experiences on Google Maps. You can usually tell.

I can't speak to C-D generalizations about Denver, I don't track it that close on here. But I do agree that posters making such statements probably know little about the cities.

[annie_himself]

Originally Posted by locolife

Why do you find it hard to believe? These are my personal photos of Tempe from Hayden Butte and South Mountain. Not sure if it will get deleted or not. Tempe is a dense college town, South Mountain and McDowells are close but not directly next to it.

Hard to believe it looks like its own city when its only 6 miles from downtown Phoenix. I think of standalone cities like Ft. Worth or St. Paul or Oakland. I don't think Tempe has that kind of reputation.

Originally Posted by boomtown boi

LOL at Englewood being comparable to Scottsdale.

I think he was referring to the cachet Scottsdale holds in the general public, in addition to the high-end shopping/resorts/etc. The only thing comparable here in terms of reputation & wealth would be Boulder, but it's a totally different vibe: faux hippie/techie yuppie sporting the newest Montbell jacket, paying $1mil.+ for a nondescript ranch house, engaging in hypocritical privileged forms of "activism" vs. huge resorts w/ bold architecture & impressive pools spreading across the desert, some of the best shopping in the country, Tom Ford energy...basically a Southern California city moved further inland.

Tempe would be most similar to Cherry Creek North in terms of location and built form, I suppose, but one is a college/nightlife district and the other an aristocratic retail/office district...so again it's hard to compare them.

Its comparable as far as distance from its main city, being an incorporated city, having a downtown. Not it's physical makeup.

Not that I love Boulder or anything but you don't have to put it down while describing it. Scottsdale could be easily described as a faux Las Vegas with wanna be models sporting plastic surgery and driving the latest Mercedes to keep up with the other Karen's.

But anyway, Cherry Creek is the most comparable to Scottsdale. Rich uppity folk and high class shopping. Tempe seems most comparable to Boulder in that both are college towns that don't feel like it anymore. Boulder is still small and not connected to Denver like Tempe is to Phoenix but I don't think it feels like an average college town with all of its corporate and white collar jobs.

[boomtown boi]

Originally Posted by annie_himself

Not that I love Boulder or anything but you don't have to put it down while describing it. Scottsdale could be easily described as a faux Las Vegas with wanna be models sporting plastic surgery and driving the latest Mercedes to keep up with the other Karen's.

Fair enough, Scottsdale is definitely more flashy/materialistic, although I don't think it tries to be like Vegas (other than having luxury hotels and palm trees).

On the Karen front...whew, I don't think there's a higher concentration of Karen types in the country these days than Boulder, CO. Assuming Karen still means an entitled, NIMBY-esque white brat? I don't associate them too much with Scottsdale, but they are thriving and multiplying here on the Front Range. Sorry if that comes across as "putting it down", I'm just stating a fact. There are still some lovely things about Boulder as well, mainly the beautiful setting in the Flatiron foothills.

Originally Posted by annie_himself

Tempe seems most comparable to Boulder in that both are college towns that don't feel like it anymore. Boulder is still small and not connected to Denver like Tempe is to Phoenix but I don't think it feels like an average college town with all of its corporate and white collar jobs.

True, although Tempe was allowed to "grow up" in a true sense re: increased density, population growth (due to lack of aforementioned Karens), while Boulder has been constrained by height limits, growth regulations, and classist zoning that will keep it a little bubble of affluence, for the foreseeable future. Because of that, this pairing almost feels like a case study of what happens when you allow growth vs. when you restrict supply in a booming college town.

And actually, the two are kind of a microcosm of their respective metro area, in terms of how they approach demand for urban living.

[Denverpro]

Originally Posted by boomtown boi

That's not really true, though. In fact Denver was a steal in terms of real estate prices and COL, as recently as a decade-ish ago...

The Phoenix metro has just done a much better job at building supply - units that are for sale, not just apartments - to keep up with demand, hence why middle-class individuals can still afford to buy homes there (maybe not in Scottsdale, mind you, but other areas of town for sure). Metropolitan areas with a broad range of home types, neighborhoods, people, and incomes are more interesting to me, and that dynamic fabric is being priced out of Denver at an alarming rate.

True. Everyone looks at percentages and thinks Denver has been the fastest growing city in America, but it only builds like 20k homes a year, whereas Dallas Builds around 60k. Denver is still ranked as a higher growing city than Dallas though. People just are dumb about percentages and math.

Phoenix with a population of 5 million is higher tier city than Denver, with a much more established development community. I work in the development community in Denver and I can tell you its not very established, because the development cycle in Denver has been historically up and down, so no large companies ever got established here. Denver is not a sunbelt city though. Sunbelt cities build better IMO. I'm not even going to get into the economics and profitability topic of building in Denver. Speaking of my personal experience, most national engineering companies from the east open an office in Phoenix before they open a Denver office.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Denverpro

True. Everyone looks at percentages and thinks Denver has been the fastest growing city in America, but it only builds like 20k homes a year, whereas Dallas Builds around 60k. Denver is still ranked as a higher growing city than Dallas though. People just are dumb about percentages and math.

Phoenix with a population of 5 million is higher tier city than Denver, with a much more established development community. I work in the development community in Denver and I can tell you its not very established, because the development cycle in Denver has been historically up and down, so no large companies ever got established here. Denver is not a sunbelt city though. Sunbelt cities build better IMO. I'm not even going to get into the economics and profitability topic of building in Denver. Speaking of my personal experience, most national engineering companies from the east open an office in Phoenix before they open a Denver office.

Your second paragraph is really interesting to me, it makes sense but I never put 2 and 2 together that would be a factor around sunbelt/high growth oriented cities.

Also, I know Denver isn't an exact sunbelt city but don't you think it acts/behaves a lot like one? It seems like growth is very rapid, it's snowy but is generally a fairly sunny climate.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by annie_himself

Hard to believe it looks like its own city when its only 6 miles from downtown Phoenix. I think of standalone cities like Ft. Worth or St. Paul or Oakland. I don't think Tempe has that kind of reputation.

Well I posted a few pics. I'm not talking about reputation, I'm talking about the current on-ground experience including the skyline. It's growing to be on par in size to a stand-alone medium sized city, Chattanooga as one example, Tempe has the more buildings over 150' (20) than Chattanooga does.

[MaricopaCountyResident]

Originally Posted by ykcawtsrif

Neither Phoenix nor Denver are exactly my favorite Western city. That said, my responses are below in bold.

Indeed, Phoenix is a whole lot better than Denver. Was in Tempe today and the views of the skyline were so breathtaking. Also, the weather was so nice. It's fun to go out in shorts and a t-shirt and not have to bundle up. I love the sunny weather too with clear skies.

[boomtown boi]

Originally Posted by locolife

Well I posted a few pics. I'm not talking about reputation, I'm talking about the current on-ground experience including the skyline. It's growing to be on par in size to a stand-alone medium sized city, Chattanooga as one example, Tempe has the more buildings over 150' (20) than Chattanooga does.

Tempe seems to be morphing into the Southwestern version of Bellevue - which is also its own separate city, about the same distance from downtown Seattle as Tempe to Phoenix. It's not on the same level yet in terms of retail and skyline, but it's heading that direction, and will have the added boost of nightlife (which Bellevue lacks) when all's said and done.