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And I'm saying the opposite is true. Despite being perceived as 'filthy' by some and despite media reports suggesting otherwise, San Francisco's wealth and image appear to remain in tact nonetheless.
But given the doomsday narrative in the media, you wouldnt think any of this, yet the numbers seem to completely disagree with popular opinion regarding the appeal and position of SF.
Also, I have been looking at rankings of the dirtiest cities and SF isnt really at the top of any of them.
This isnt to say everything is awesome, it's not, but is it really as bad as people say? I sort of don't think so.
I was on a work retreat. I stayed with a college buddy originally from the East Coast. Who lives in Foster City. A very very mellow guy. Not for the dramatics. I asked him how was the Bay he said he loved it for its beauty and diversity.
I asked "is San Fran it as bad as they make it sound in terms of crime/grime?" He said "Well yea dude- that's why we don't live in the city." The primary thing he mentioned was car breaks and how he can't tolerate the car break-in and aggressive homeless.
You're basically giving us a link that on a macro level says SF is great, but then admitting there are lots of people in the media who disagree. IDK why they say this about SF and not Boston, but I'm assuming its because SF is legitimately different. Idk why they would single out SF and not Boston. And I don't think its just the media. In past years we've had West Coast posters come on CD and tell us all about the horrors of their cities homeless and feces et al...
Also-the Atlantic's piece seemed pretty honest and personal and came from a lifelong SF resident. I don't know think anyone said SF is dirty because it's rich. But those conditions do exist in affluent cities.
The entire point was being rich doesn't preclude you from having a lot of grime. Esp considering SF is far wealthier than Boston on an individual level, DC is too but to a lesser extent. Same for Seattle.
You say SF is improving- that great and I believe you-- I have no reason not too. I'm certainly not invested enough in SF to want to deride it.
It's the same thing with Crime. People try every reason under the sun for why Boston is in a low crime period right now. But I think it primarily comes down to culture. I noted some practical reasons (repeated ATF/DEA/FBI raids/cases/ RICO) but a lot of it comes down to culture. Not so much economics- because we always have counterpoint examples.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 09-27-2022 at 07:49 AM..
I think every city is getting dirtier b/c people, esp younger people, have just become pigs. It's no big thing, even fashionable among some, just to throw their rappers, cig butts, etc., onto the ground or the subway tracks ... or even out car windows, esp along freeway entrance and exit ramps. It's getting really bad; terrible overall for the environment.
And I'm saying the opposite is true. Despite being perceived as 'filthy' by some and despite media reports suggesting otherwise, San Francisco's wealth and image appear to remain in tact nonetheless.
But given the doomsday narrative in the media, you wouldnt think any of this, yet the numbers seem to completely disagree with popular opinion regarding the appeal and position of SF.
Also, I have been looking at rankings of the dirtiest cities and SF isnt really at the top of any of them.
This isnt to say everything is awesome, it's not, but is it really as bad as people say? I sort of don't think so.
That last one listed “electric vehicle share” and “strength of recycling program” as what makes a city “clean” which is not what people are talking about. Similarly the first list was pollution
The only list (the 2nd one) puts San Francisco on par with Philly (a city about 1/3rd the wealth of SF) and New Orleans with cleanliness. And DC as a very dirty city. Which means wealth seems loosely connected to cleanliness.
I think people make the point about DC having extremely high crime considering it’s wealth and people will come out and say “well Philly/Baltimore/St Louis etc are worse” yeah but none of those cities are remotely as wealthy which is what makes it odd
You say SF is improving- that great and I believe you-- I have no reason not too.
Homelessness and Crime are not matters of opinion.
These are facts:
1. Homelessness in San Francisco is down 3.5% from 3 years ago.
2. Crime rates have not shown any significant change; violent crime is a little down, property crimes are a little up.
And I agree, it's totally all a matter of culture, every region is different.
Wallethub: 25 Happiest Cities in America, 2022 #1 Fremont, CA
#2 Columbia, MD #3 San Francisco, CA
#4 San Jose, CA
#5 Irvine, CA
#6 Madison, WI
#7 Seattle, WA
#8 Overland Park, KS #9 Huntington Beach, CA
#10 San Diego, CA
#11 Fargo, ND
#12 Minneapolis, MN
#13 Bismark, ND #14 Santa Rosa, CA
#15 Santa Clarita, CA
#16 Oakland, CA
#17 Sioux Falls, SD #18 Glendale, CA
#19 Scottsdale, AZ #20 Anaheim, CA
#21 Aurora, CO
#22 Plano, TX #23 Oxnard, CA
#24 Garden Grove, CA
#25 Chula Vista, CA
Downtown Chicago is both orderly and clean. I think orderly is a good word for many of Chicago's neighborhoods. Clean wouldn't be the way i'd describe a lot of them. But overall, I do think Chicago is a clean city, especially in its core.
Logan Square and its commercial areas are highly representative of the North Side. Like anywhere else, you can find some trash along the street and sidewalk, but pretty standard: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9245...7i16384!8i8192
The south and west side obviously are a bit more depressed. These neighborhoods make up nearly 33% of the city.
Ill compare these to some streets in "lesser areas in Boston, I just selected some streets with what I find to be a more regular amount of trash/litter. I really didn't select vacant lots because its not necessarily dirty although they cant attract trash. I certainly had many to choose from in that regard.
Homelessness and Crime are not matters of opinion.
These are facts:
1. Homelessness in San Francisco is down 3.5% from 3 years ago.
2. Crime rates have not shown any significant change; violent crime is a little down, property crimes are a little up.
And I agree, it's totally all a matter of culture, every region is different.
Wallethub: 25 Happiest Cities in America, 2022 #1 Fremont, CA
#2 Columbia, MD #3 San Francisco, CA
#4 San Jose, CA
#5 Irvine, CA
#6 Madison, WI
#7 Seattle, WA
#8 Overland Park, KS #9 Huntington Beach, CA
#10 San Diego, CA
#11 Fargo, ND
#12 Minneapolis, MN
#13 Bismark, ND #14 Santa Rosa, CA
#15 Santa Clarita, CA
#16 Oakland, CA
#17 Sioux Falls, SD #18 Glendale, CA
#19 Scottsdale, AZ #20 Anaheim, CA
#21 Aurora, CO
#22 Plano, TX #23 Oxnard, CA
#24 Garden Grove, CA
#25 Chula Vista, CA
I definitely don’t think Boston is dirtier now than it was 10 years ago.
I'd argue that, overall, it's getting cleaner at a pretty rapid clip. There are a couple of exceptions - Mass/Cass is the big one, it has looked worst in recent years than it ever did when I was growing up. The Summer/Winter/Washington pocket of DTX is a little bit stagnant - I don't know if I could argue that it's better or worse than 10 years ago but it's certainly not keeping the pace with other areas of town. The edge of the Common between Park St. Station and the State House has gotten grittier. But the vast majority of the city looks/feels quite a bit cleaner than it used to in my experience.
A lot of areas where many cities will you landscaping like in the shoulders or medians near waterfront areas are full of weeds in Boston. I wouldn’t call it super clean looking.
Boston does have much less graffiti than the West Coast.
A lot of areas where many cities will you landscaping like in the shoulders or medians near waterfront areas are full of weeds in Boston. I wouldn’t call it super clean looking.
Boston does have much less graffiti than the West Coast.
Yeah but still wayyyyyy cleaner than LA, SD, Portland OR .. and especially SF and Seattle.
My coworker was just in Seattle and he hated it and one of the primary reasons was the hoards of trash out there
I used to glorify the west coast, but now Im coming to terms with reality
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