What does New York lack despite its size that other Acela metros have? (Atlanta, quality)
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going to be hated in but New York mostly lacks unique native cuisine. Due to its cultural power and massive expat community anything that was local to NYC has spread across the country in a way like mambo sauce, Orange Crush, Coffee milk, Greek Pizza or what not have not
In NYCs defense, running back a few pages, what cities actually have through running? I cant name one off of the top of my head.
Philadelphia has it via the Center City Commuter Connection. Philadelphia can actually do through-running a second way which Amtrak does currently as the Center City Commuter Connection has a west-east orientation at 30th Street Station while Amtrak does a north-south orientation (NJT Atlantic City also goes through this north-south orientation lower level platforms, but does not through-run though it'd be neat if it did).
Providence also has through-running commuter rail as the MBTA Providence line goes through Providence to serve South Station to the north and T.F. Green and Wickford Junction to the south. There's been some talk of extending it to Kingston and Westerly.
Baltimore also has through-running commuter rail via the MARC Penn Line.
New York City actually has the infrastructure to do some through-running right now and NJT trains actually go through Manhattan and to Long Island City in Queens, but is not allowed to bring passengers along with it. Multiple Amtrak trains also go through those same tunnels, but those aren't commuter rail. So while it technically does through-running, NYC does not do it with commuter rail passenger service with passengers on board.
Newark, NJ has through-running NJT service though I think it's generally left off of major city Acela metros being too close to NYC. Similar case but with SEPTA trains for Wilmington, DE.
DC is on board with through-running with plans to extend the MARC Penn Line to Northern Virginia.
Boston has a tough-ish nut to crack to build those tunnels, but it probably should.
None of these are running as higher frequency (on individual lines) and high-frequency (in interlined segments) rail all day, all week lines though. That's a huge distinction between how Australian, European, and East Asian "commuter rail" lines run vs the US and Canada. Toronto is trying to move towards that right now and Montreal just debuted a segment of a conversion of part of their commuter rail to a driverless metro. Chicago Metra is also testing the waters with gradual increments and fare adjustments and Philadelphia is considering moving towards that which is easiest for Philadelphia given its lines are already electrified and it has a four-track center tunnel all under one agency.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 08-14-2023 at 09:52 AM..
Philadelphia has it via the Center City Commuter Connection. Philadelphia can actually do through-running a second way which Amtrak does currently as the Center City Commuter Connection has a west-east orientation at 30th Street Station while Amtrak does a north-south orientation (NJT Atlantic City also goes through this north-south orientation lower level platforms, but does not through-run though it'd be neat if it did).
Providence also has through-running commuter rail as the MBTA Providence line goes through Providence to serve South Station to the north and T.F. Green and Wickford Junction to the south. There's been some talk of extending it to Kingston and Westerly.
Baltimore also has through-running commuter rail via the MARC Penn Line.
New York City actually has the infrastructure to do some through-running right now and NJT trains actually go through Manhattan and to Long Island City in Queens, but is not allowed to bring passengers along with it. Multiple Amtrak trains also go through those same tunnels, but those aren't commuter rail. So while it technically does through-running, NYC does not do it with commuter rail passenger service with passengers on board.
Newark, NJ has through-running NJT service though I think it's generally left off of major city Acela metros being too close to NYC. Similar case but with SEPTA trains for Wilmington, DE.
DC is on board with through-running with plans to extend the MARC Penn Line to Northern Virginia.
Boston has a tough-ish nut to crack to build those tunnels, but it probably should.
None of these are running as higher frequency (on individual lines) and high-frequency (in interlined segments) rail all day, all week lines though. That's a huge distinction between how Australian, European, and East Asian "commuter rail" lines run vs the US and Canada. Toronto is trying to move towards that right now and Montreal just debuted a segment of a conversion of part of their commuter rail to a driverless metro. Chicago Metra is also testing the waters with gradual increments and fare adjustments and Philadelphia is considering moving towards that which is easiest for Philadelphia given its lines are already electrified and it has a four-track center tunnel all under one agency.
Wanted to add a bit in saying DC is like NYC in that it has some infrastructure for through-running with Amtrak currently using it, but none of the commuter rail passenger services doing so though without the egregiousness of actually running commuter trains through the center and doing so with empty cars.
Wanted to add a bit in saying DC is like NYC in that it has some infrastructure for through-running with Amtrak currently using it, but none of the commuter rail passenger services doing so though without the egregiousness of actually running commuter trains through the center and doing so with empty cars.
It's neat traingeeking out with you as well, OyCrumbler.
One footnote about Philadelphia's center-city tunnel: It's the only one of the through-running facilities listed above with more than one station in the core. The tunnel itself has two stations in Center City, and a third, above-ground station is located at 30th Street Station just across the Schuylkill in what is for all intents and purposes an extension of the core. A fourth elevated station in North Philadelphia (Temple University) serves all the lines, and all but one of them* stop at a fifth station to its north, Wayne Junction. Three of the lines serve another station in University City (Penn Medicine).
So you have in effect a six-station trunk line through the heart of the city and adjacent North Philadelphia.
*In a move I consider stunningly dumb, SEPTA rebadged the seven Regional Rail lines that run through the tunnel — numbered R1 to R8 (no R4), following Central European practice — as 13 "separate" lines named for their outer destinations, the way they were described prior to the 1984 opening of the Commuter Tunnel. Yet most peak-hour trains, and all off-peak ones, operate through the tunnel from one outer terminus to another, and the train numbers actually reflect the old R-number system. Philadelphians — notoriously resistant to new terms — glommed onto these numbers the moment they were introduced, and some still use them now that they're gone. I will never understand what logic SEPTA brass used to determine the numbers were "too confusing." To their own staff, maybe, but certainly not to the riding public.
It's neat traingeeking out with you as well, OyCrumbler.
One footnote about Philadelphia's center-city tunnel: It's the only one of the through-running facilities listed above with more than one station in the core. The tunnel itself has two stations in Center City, and a third, above-ground station is located at 30th Street Station just across the Schuylkill in what is for all intents and purposes an extension of the core. A fourth elevated station in North Philadelphia (Temple University) serves all the lines, and all but one of them* stop at a fifth station to its north, Wayne Junction. Three of the lines serve another station in University City (Penn Medicine).
So you have in effect a six-station trunk line through the heart of the city and adjacent North Philadelphia.
*In a move I consider stunningly dumb, SEPTA rebadged the seven Regional Rail lines that run through the tunnel — numbered R1 to R8 (no R4), following Central European practice — as 13 "separate" lines named for their outer destinations, the way they were described prior to the 1984 opening of the Commuter Tunnel. Yet most peak-hour trains, and all off-peak ones, operate through the tunnel from one outer terminus to another, and the train numbers actually reflect the old R-number system. Philadelphians — notoriously resistant to new terms — glommed onto these numbers the moment they were introduced, and some still use them now that they're gone. I will never understand what logic SEPTA brass used to determine the numbers were "too confusing." To their own staff, maybe, but certainly not to the riding public.
Right, it's a long trunk line and arguably even longer than that because of the funny way that Regional Rail arcs back from rail going out from either direction of the tunnel and intersects those ends at North Broad Street and North Philadelphia stations which are about a quarter mile from each other in the neighborhood of Glenwood. This effectively means that Regional Rail trains all cross through this area one way or another. I think what Philadelphia should do is move the North Philadelphia station up about a block and a half to directly connect to North Philadelphia RR station as well as the North Philadelphia Broad Street Line subway station to serve as a potential transfer (along with a new trolley line running the length of Lehigh Avenue) and turn that area into a secondary downtown for Philadelphia with densely developed lots and high-rises integrated into these stations.
Right, it's a long trunk line and arguably even longer than that because of the funny way that Regional Rail arcs back from rail going out from either direction of the tunnel and intersects those ends at North Broad Street and North Philadelphia stations which are about a quarter mile from each other in the neighborhood of Glenwood. This effectively means that Regional Rail trains all cross through this area one way or another. I think what Philadelphia should do is move the North Philadelphia station up about a block and a half to directly connect to North Philadelphia RR station as well as the North Philadelphia Broad Street Line subway station to serve as a potential transfer (along with a new trolley line running the length of Lehigh Avenue) and turn that area into a secondary downtown for Philadelphia with densely developed lots and high-rises integrated into these stations.
Just to eliminate some confusion, I think the station you want to move is North Broad, on the ex-Reading side of the system.
That station was once a major stop like North Philadelphia (PRR and now Amtrak) or Wayne Junction one stop north. But the station building got turned into a halfway house residence and the island platforms were removed; trains on only two Regional Rail lines stop there now. Having a transfer between the ex-RDG trunk, two ex-PRR lines and the BSL at North Philadelphia might just be the extra spark that struggling area needs.
Just to eliminate some confusion, I think the station you want to move is North Broad, on the ex-Reading side of the system.
That station was once a major stop like North Philadelphia (PRR and now Amtrak) or Wayne Junction one stop north. But the station building got turned into a halfway house residence and the island platforms were removed; trains on only two Regional Rail lines stop there now. Having a transfer between the ex-RDG trunk, two ex-PRR lines and the BSL at North Philadelphia might just be the extra spark that struggling area needs.
Yes, you're right, I meant to say North Broad station. It does require vision and determination on the part of municipal government to make this happen, but I think it makes a lot of sense and essentially extends the six station trunk to a seven station one (though it's two stations next to each other) and provides an additional jumping off point to the subway. Ideally, NJT Atlantic City line would also be improved and integrated into higher frequency regional rail services essentially operating as an additional SEPTA RR line. I think if the area can be developed enough and SEPTA RR becomes very good, then I think it'd be nice for Amtrak to run Keystone Service and the Pennsylvanian and potentially new services to operate North Philadelphia as its main stop for those services so it doesn't need to pull into 30th Street Station and then do a reversal which takes time and instead just use a wye around Philadelphia Zoo to go straight on ahead.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 08-15-2023 at 09:36 AM..
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