What are the best second tier city's in the south. (building, beautiful)
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And that was your Atlanta experience? OK, now I understand.
That's roughly 5.5 million people's 'Atlanta experience' because every body lives in the burbs LOL!!! Atlanta is no NYC incase you didn't know ROTFLMAO!!!
That's roughly 5.5 million people's 'Atlanta experience' because every body lives in the burbs LOL!!! Atlanta is no NYC incase you didn't know ROTFLMAO!!!
I wasn't aware that Atlanta's population was zero since everyone lives in the burbs.....
I wasn't aware that Atlanta's population was zero since everyone lives in the burbs.....
You know what I meant LOL. Less than 10% of metro Atlanta actually lives in Atlanta. Atlanta is more sprawled than Houston.
Anyway, I think a few people have completely missed my point. Earlier I said imagine how much more urban Houston would look and feel if it had 2.2 million people in a smaller area than the city's current 600 sq/miles of land. This was not an attempt to suggest that Charlotte and Houston are the same size. It was an attempt to show the difference between tier 1 southern cities and tier 1 cities like Boston, Philly, DC, San Fran and the likes.
Think about it. If DC (600,000 people in less than 50 sq./miles of land) had half the land of Houston (that would be 300 sq./miles) DC would probably be 2.2 million strong. Houston is the fourth largest city in America on paper, but in reality, Houston looks more like Charlotte and Nashville in person than it does like DC. Other than Houston's kicka$$ skyline, Houston does not scream big city to me.
Keep in mind I have visited nearly every major city in the country more than twice as an over the road trucker. During my down time, I used local mass transit systems to explore new cities I had never seen before (mass transit was MUCH cheaper than renting a car on my trucker's salary LOL). Houston is one of the first cities I visited out west. I was amazed at the way how Houston's skyline is almost endless in certain areas. I was also amazed at that tall 900 foot skyscraper in the Galleria Area (I think it is the tallest tower outside of a downtown in America). At the same time, I was not impressed with Houston's urbanity at the street level because quite frankly I saw much larger urban looking cities in the north.
To me, Houston reminded me of little ol' Charlotte at the street level and I was expecting NYC or Boston when I went there. After seeing the entire country IN PERSON (not just internet pictures) I realized where the sprawl is and where the true urban centers of America are. Houston is one of the sprawl towns that look like Charlotte (with the exception of the skyline in Houston). DC doesn't even have a skyline (due to law) but it is soooooo much more urban than Charlotte and Houston. That is why I said the difference between tier 1 and tier 2 southern towns is sprawl. The south does not have a DC, Philly, San Fran, or Boston. Again, I have seen the entire country many times over in my career. I drive locally now, but my over the road experience is still fresh in my mind. America is beautiful. Houston is beautiful. Just don't take it personally when a very well traveled poster says there isn't much difference between the look and feel of southern towns. Miami and New Orleans are probably the most unique cities in the south I have seen. The rest are either too small to talk about or too sprawled to be interesting.
One more thing. ATL does know how to party, but then again, so does Vegas and Vegas is tier two sized.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 06-16-2009 at 09:36 PM..
You know what I meant LOL. Less than 10% of metro Atlanta actually lives in Atlanta. Atlanta is more sprawled than Houston.
Anyway, I think a few people have completely missed my point. Earlier I said imagine how much more urban Houston would look and feel if it had 2.2 million people in a smaller area than the city's current 600 sq/miles of land. This was not an attempt to suggest that Charlotte and Houston are the same size. It was an attempt to show the difference between tier 1 southern cities and tier 1 cities like Boston, Philly, DC, San Fran and the likes.
Think about it. If DC (600,000 people in less than 50 sq./miles of land) had half the land of Houston (that would be 300 sq./miles) DC would probably be 2.2 million strong. Houston is the fourth largest city in America on paper, but in reality, Houston looks more like Charlotte and Nashville in person than it does like DC. Other than Houston's kicka$$ skyline, Houston does not scream big city to me.
Keep in mind I have visited nearly every major city in the country more than twice as an over the road trucker. During my down time, I used local mass transit systems to explore new cities I had never seen before (mass transit was MUCH cheaper than renting a car on my trucker's salary LOL). Houston is one of the first cities I visited out west. I was amazed at the way how Houston's skyline is almost endless in certain areas. I was also amazed at that tall 900 foot skyscraper in the Galleria Area (I think it is the tallest tower outside of a downtown in America). At the same time, I was not impressed with Houston's urbanity at the street level because quite frankly I saw much larger urban looking cities in the north.
To me, Houston reminded me of little ol' Charlotte at the street level and I was expecting NYC or Boston when I went there. After seeing the entire country IN PERSON (not just internet pictures) I realized where the sprawl is and where the true urban centers of America are. Houston is one of the sprawl towns that look like Charlotte (with the exception of the skyline in Houston). DC doesn't even have a skyline (due to law) but it is soooooo much more urban than Charlotte and Houston. That is why I said the difference between tier 1 and tier 2 southern towns is sprawl. The south does not have a DC, Philly, San Fran, or Boston. Again, I have seen the entire country many times over in my career. I drive locally now, but my over the road experience is still fresh in my mind. America is beautiful. Houston is beautiful. Just don't take it personally when a very well traveled poster says there isn't much difference between the look and feel of southern towns. Miami and New Orleans are probably the most unique cities in the south I have seen. The rest are either too small to talk about or too sprawled to be interesting.
One more thing. ATL does know how to party, but then again, so does Vegas and Vegas is tier two sized.
I get what your saying, but Houston and Charlotte are two worlds apart. Houston feels and looks much bigger. I'd even say the city is more urban than Charlotte because of all the urban centers. Many people would consider the inner loop as urban.
I agree Houston looks more like Charlotte than say NYC or Chicago, but you have to remember Houston wuld be consider a newer and more modern city than NYC or CHI. Houston and Charlotte don't loook nothing alike though, Houston is much more compact while Charlotte is built more like Atlanta.
I get what your saying, but Houston and Charlotte are two worlds apart. Houston feels and looks much bigger. I'd even say the city is more urban than Charlotte because of all the urban centers. Many people would consider the inner loop as urban.
I agree Houston looks more like Charlotte than say NYC or Chicago, but you have to remember Houston wuld be consider a newer and more modern city than NYC or CHI. Houston and Charlotte don't loook nothing alike though, Houston is much more compact while Charlotte is built more like Atlanta.
I can agree with that. Charlotte is without a doubt closer to Atlanta in layout. Houston is more urban due to uptown and downtown Houston. It is almost like two cities in one.
When I brought up Houston, I was only using it as an example of why it is not wise to make bold statements about the downtown areas of tier 1 southern cities (especially when there is a top 25 downtown thread going on that ranks Nashville and Charlotte's downtowns ahead of Houston and Dallas). The difference to me is the development outside of downtown. I called that development sprawl because the points of interests are rather far apart (too far for walking and tend to have tooooo much surface parking). You called that development urban because it can compete with the downtowns of cities like Charlotte. Trust me, I understand the difference between tier 1 and tier 2 southern cities. The difference is outside of downtown. You call it urban. I call it sprawl. Either way, we are talking about the same thing.
There is a poster here who suggested that the difference was within downtown and I called him out on it because I knew from first hand experience that he was wrong. Before I saw tier 1 southern cities in person, I would have foolishly agreed with this poster simply because I would not have known any better.
I can agree with that. Charlotte is without a doubt closer to Atlanta in layout. Houston is more urban due to uptown and downtown Houston. It is almost like two cities in one.
When I brought up Houston, I was only using it as an example of why it is not wise to make bold statements about the downtown areas of tier 1 southern cities (especially when there is a top 25 downtown thread going on that ranks Nashville and Charlotte's downtowns ahead of Houston and Dallas). The difference to me is the development outside of downtown. I called that development sprawl because the points of interests are rather far apart (too far for walking and tend to have tooooo much surface parking). You called that development urban because it can compete with the downtowns of cities like Charlotte. Trust me, I understand the difference between tier 1 and tier 2 southern cities. The difference is outside of downtown. You call it urban. I call it sprawl. Either way, we are talking about the same thing.
There is a poster here who suggested that the difference was within downtown and I called him out on it because I knew from first hand experience that he was wrong. Before I saw tier 1 southern cities in person, I would have foolishly agreed with this poster simply because I would not have known any better.
Preach!!!
Defend Charlotte to the fullest. To much credit is given to the big three in the south. What about Charlotte, Fort Worth, Memphis, Nashville Jacksonville or Austin? These cities are a force to be reckon with in there own right.
Last edited by Exult.Q36; 06-17-2009 at 12:38 AM..
Let me refresh your memory as to why I don't agree with you.
You clearly said 'carefully note how you feel when you arrive in their downtowns'. If you really think that the 'downtowns' of tier one southern cities are light years ahead of tier two southern cities you are wrong.
However, tier one NORTH EASTERN cities have downtowns that are light years ahead of tier two southern cities (tier one southern cities too). That is what I meant when I said that Houstons and Atlantas are sprawlvilles. So are Charlottes and Nashvilles. I hope I don't have to post pictures of tier one cities like Boston and Houston so you all can see the difference between Boston's urbanity and Houston's sprawl. I seriously would hate to do that being that this thread is ALL about tier two southern cities.
The bottom line is that Boston looks more like NYC than it does Houston. Houston looks more like Charlotte and Nashville than it does Boston. Again, if you would like to see pics, let me know.
I will say this much though. Houston does have a kick a$$ skyline though. Unfortunately, the city is not very urban at the street level (the same problem tier 2 southern cities have)
go ahead, pull out your brownie---and, no, not that one. lol as for me, i have lived in nashville, and now, i return for regular visits. nashville is not even in the running. it has a tiny downtown, the downtown is not dense nor tight physically, and the city has no 2nd, 3rd, and beyond skylines. charlotte has a very small but attractive skyline; however, other than a very small section outside downtown, you see about the same thing you see in any community of 100,000 people. there are just so many lowe's, targets, wal-marts, etc., that any community can possess before repeats. replication in american cities is seen daily throughout the country. i cannot see why anyone who has been to the accepted tier 1 cities would have difficulty understanding why they are tier 1 and why tier 2 cities are distinctly different in size, flavor, etc.
go ahead, pull out your brownie---and, no, not that one. lol as for me, i have lived in nashville, and now, i return for regular visits. nashville is not even in the running. it has a tiny downtown, the downtown is not dense nor tight physically, and the city has no 2nd, 3rd, and beyond skylines. charlotte has a very small but attractive skyline; however, other than a very small section outside downtown, you see about the same thing you see in any community of 100,000 people. there are just so many lowe's, targets, wal-marts, etc., that any community can possess before repeats. replication in american cities is seen daily throughout the country. i cannot see why anyone who has been to the accepted tier 1 cities would have difficulty understanding why they are tier 1 and why tier 2 cities are distinctly different in size, flavor, etc.
Boston
Houston
Charlotte
photo's courtesy of flickr
Boston and Houston are tier 1 cities. Charlotte is a tier 2 city. You tell me which downtown Houston resembles the most. Unfortunately, pictures are NOTHING like seeing Boston vs. Houston in person. Boston is soooooooo much more urban than ANYTHING in the south that it is unreal!!!
Why is it sooooo hard for you to understand that tier 1 Boston is light years ahead of tier 1 Houston? You seem to think that Houston and the likes are light years ahead of tier two southern towns. They are ahead. They are just not light years ahead like Boston. Get it. Good!!!
One other thing. I do realize that there is much more to Houston than this partial downtown photo. However, you were the one that told us tier two dwellers to drive, fly, or whatever into the DOWNTOWNS of the tier one cities and take note of what we see. As if to suggest that people that live in tier 2 cities have no clue of what a tier 1 city looks like. Well I've got news for you pal. The entire northeast thinks of EVERYTHING south of DC as 'country'. If you don't believe, go to NYC or Boston's forum and explain to them why tier 1 cities like Houston and Atlanta are more like Boston and Philly than they are like Charlotte and watch what happens. You will see nothing but attitudes just like mine. Try it and see... Good luck!!!
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 06-17-2009 at 01:31 AM..
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Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
That's roughly 5.5 million people's 'Atlanta experience' because every body lives in the burbs LOL!!! Atlanta is no NYC incase you didn't know ROTFLMAO!!!
Being a native, I am well acquainted with the 'Atlanta Experience'. Not everyone here lives in the suburbs as you claim...myself included.
The constant comparison of Sunbelt cities to NYC is frankly tiresome. As has been stated over and over here, not everyone wants the lifestyle afforded by NYC ("afforded" being an ironic choice of words). Atlanta has been a great place to live IMO, and certainly runs circles around other places I have lived (NYC, DC, Miami). My husband, a Seattle native, agrees with me on this score, and the overwhelming majority of my friends and family do, too. Sorry that this has gotten OT.
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