Is Cleveland Midwest or East (Toronto, Ontario: agriculture, manufacturing, train)

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by gouldnm

As a person from Michigan who now lives on the East Coast, Cleveland is the Midwest. The culture starts to feel Midwestern as soon as you cross the Appalachians, even though you are still in Pennsylvania, which is technically part of the Northeast.

As someone said earlier, the Midwest is not a monolithic block. Neither is the East Coast.

There is a good historical reason for that, Springfield, Hartford, Albany, Boston, New York, Philly, Providence, Portsmouth, etc. were all settled within 20 years or so, while Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, Detroit etc were all settled within about 20 years of each other. However there was about 170 years between the two.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

I love how you can tell when this moved to the Cleveland forum
By how the consensus changed from "it's Midwestern but Great Lakes Midwestern" to "Cleveland is literally on the Merrimack River"

You can't follown discussion very well then it seems. Because nobody said that. Btw, having a new England similarity is not necessarily a good thing at all. Regardless, I stand by my comparison. Obviously, and this is clear to anyone with knowledge of the area, it's a great lakes city. We are simply acknowledging some characteristics that look eastward. All great lakes cities I know have some of these similarities too. This doesn't mean literally on the Merrimack. Very dumb comment.

Have you ever even been to Cleveland?

[KY_Transplant]

Cleveland is a Midwestern city, with a Great Lakes vibe, similar to Buffalo, Milwaukee and Detroit. There is a little bit of New England flair, but minimal and mostly due to its settlement pattern being the “Western Reserve of Connecticut”. But today, Cleveland is Midwestern as is all of Ohio, certainly not East coast or Northeast, IMO.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by KY_Transplant

Cleveland is a Midwestern city, with a Great Lakes vibe, similar to Buffalo, Milwaukee and Detroit. There is a little bit of New England flair, but minimal and mostly due to its settlement pattern being the “Western Reserve of Connecticut”. But today, Cleveland is Midwestern as is all of Ohio, certainly not East coast or Northeast, IMO.

It seems like nobody is capable of actually looking at differences between cities. Like "Cleveland is midwestern, as is all of Ohio." What a meaningless statement. If you can't see differences between the 3 C's, you really have never been to them. Heck I even feel like Canton is quite different from Cleveland.

I find it hilarious that people say just looking at some eastern similarities is saying basically Cleveland is an east coast city. The reason I like Cleveland is because it's NOT an east coast city (absolutely most overrated location in the country, IMO).

Interesting you compare Cleveland with Buffalo, given that it is absolutely not midwestern. I thought we had this figured out a long time ago, that there is a marked difference between the Great Lakes cities and the rest of the midwest. Are you saying Cleveland reminds you of Indianapolis and Des Moines?

Also, what are we talking about? Architecture? Layout? Mass transit? People? Culture? I believe I specifically made some comments related to some of those points that just got overlooked completely by a few users here.

[Bilbono]

The question will never be settled because Cle is equal parts of both, plus unique in its own right. I even see in the people equal qualities of both. Speaking in generalities here, but my thoughts on midwesterners is they are polite and act like they are friendly, but they really don't want to get to know you. Whereas eastcoasters act like they don't want to get to know you, but actually are more open to a friendly conversation. Clevelanders are neither, they are reservedly friendly and open, and seem more genuine than either group. They'll argue like an eastcoaster, but behind it I think they're happy to be talking to someone. On the other hand, when we moved here, many neighbors welcomed us and brought us baked goods, which is more of a midwestern thing than an east coast thing. So, you really can't label them more like one or the other. Clevelanders are unique.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

You can't follown discussion very well then it seems. Because nobody said that. Btw, having a new England similarity is not necessarily a good thing at all. Regardless, I stand by my comparison. Obviously, and this is clear to anyone with knowledge of the area, it's a great lakes city. We are simply acknowledging some characteristics that look eastward. All great lakes cities I know have some of these similarities too. This doesn't mean literally on the Merrimack. Very dumb comment.

Have you ever even been to Cleveland?

Yes and I went to college in Upstate NY. Buffalo and Cleveland (and Hamilton, ON) are about a close approximations as you can get. Not Boston, or Providence or Worcester.

All the Great Lakes cities from Duluth to Buffalo have similarities I think more close to each other than to the coast. Rochester is the one outlier because it was never a lake port and Lake Ontario wasn't part of the Great Lakes trade like the others because of Niagara Falls and on top of that it is almost like Grand Rapids as its a city that happens to be near a lake not a lake city.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

Yes and I went to college in Upstate NY. Buffalo and Cleveland (and Hamilton, ON) are about a close approximations as you can get. Not Boston, or Providence or Worcester.

All the Great Lakes cities from Duluth to Buffalo have similarities I think more close to each other than to the coast. Rochester is the one outlier because it was never a lake port and Lake Ontario wasn't part of the Great Lakes trade like the others because of Niagara Falls and on top of that it is almost like Grand Rapids as its a city that happens to be near a lake not a lake city.

ah so you used to live in Buffalo (or nearby-ish) and you went to Cleveland once. Got it. You clearly don't really know the city well. I have no idea why you speak with authority on the matter.

Of course the Great Lakes cities have more in common with each other. You are the only person that has read this thread as not that. You are making a point that at least 5 other people have made (including me). I made some comparison between Providence and Worcester. You are the only person who thinks I said they are the same thing. Personally I think the city closest to a Cleveland vibe all things considered would be Milwaukee.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

ah so you used to live in Buffalo (or nearby-ish) and you went to Cleveland once. Got it. You clearly don't really know the city well. I have no idea why you speak with authority on the matter.

Of course the Great Lakes cities have more in common with each other. You are the only person that has read this thread as not that. You are making a point that at least 5 other people have made (including me). I made some comparison between Providence and Worcester. You are the only person who thinks I said they are the same thing. Personally I think the city closest to a Cleveland vibe all things considered would be Milwaukee.

I spent 6 months co-oping in Warren OH, I know the area well.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by 585WNY

I'm of the unpopular opinion that Cleveland is the one city located within a Midwestern state that belongs to the Northeast.

Downtown Cleveland actually reminds me a great deal of a larger Downtown Buffalo. The layout of parts of Euclid Ave and Superior Ave look nearly identical to Main Street in Buffalo minus the light rail line. The area immediately surrounding Public Square remind me of Market Square in Pittsburgh with elements of Buffalo's Lafayette Square. The housing stock of Cleveland's neighborhoods are closer to those found in Buffalo and Rochester than most Midwestern cities. The only city in the Midwest I'd put Cleveland alongside is Detroit, but they're not nearly as comparable.

Here we go gain...

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

Yes and I went to college in Upstate NY. Buffalo and Cleveland (and Hamilton, ON) are about a close approximations as you can get. Not Boston, or Providence or Worcester.

All the Great Lakes cities from Duluth to Buffalo have similarities I think more close to each other than to the coast. Rochester is the one outlier because it was never a lake port and Lake Ontario wasn't part of the Great Lakes trade like the others because of Niagara Falls and on top of that it is almost like Grand Rapids as its a city that happens to be near a lake not a lake city.

OK, you've shot your credibility, as apparently you've never heard of the Welland Canal, which has been around since 1829, or the St. Lawrence Seaway in more recent decades. The Welland Canal bypassing Niagara Falls is why the Port of Cleveland can have scheduled freight service between Cleveland and Europe. Anybody halfway well informed about Cleveland knows about the Welland Canal and the St. Lawrence Seaway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellan..._Welland_Canal

My guess, and it's a guess, is that Rochester didn't develop as a lake port because of a paucity of anything to ship into or out of Rochester economically. Similarly, Toronto on Lake Ontario has a good commercial port, but its commercial tonnage is much smaller even today than Cleveland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toront...ort_of_Toronto

Cleveland and Buffalo developed as ports because of their direct proximity to the Erie Canal, which offered economical transport to and from NYC. Initially, agricultural goods shipped by canal boats up the Ohio and Erie Canal through Cleveland to Buffalo and the Erie Canal comprised much of the cargo shipped from Cleveland. Agricultural goods and other goods produced in western NY likely were shipped directly on the Erie Canal.

<<By 1849, Ohio produced more corn than any other state, and ranked second in wheat production.>>

http://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Agri...arming_in_Ohio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_and_Erie_Canal

Cleveland further became a manufacturing center, partly because coal could be sent by train from the south while iron ore was delivered by lake freighters.

Iron ore and grain are major commodities shipped to and from Cleveland these days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Cleveland#Cargo

I wonder if Port of Cleveland statistics include iron ore delivered up the Cuyahoga River by giant lake freighters directly to the ArcelorMittal steel mill, as opposed to iron ore pellets that do go through Port of Cleveland facilities for transshipment.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...and_makes.html

https://clevelandmagazine.com/cleade...s-to-cleveland

Within the City of Cleveland, there is a major salt mine under Lake Erie that also uses the Port of Cleveland to ship product.

http://www.ideastream.org/news/explo...land-salt-mine

Detroit also isn't on a Great Lake, but has major port facilities nearby on the Rouge River.