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It always amazes me how naive and inexperienced some people can be.
Wow. Seriously? It amazes me how insulting you can be.
Naive and inexperienced?? Because I don't think a city with an average home price of $450,000 is a good thing?? I lived in Miami for a month, pre housing crash. I lived in La Jolla... wait... ********** I am not going to sit here and explain to you how "experienced" I am. Suffice it to say: I am far from inexperienced and naive.
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Housing is "that" expensive in pretty much all the truly global cities. Not just in North America, but all over the world as well (London, Paris, Hong Kong, etc.).
Yea and? That's exactly why I don't want to live in a mega-city. Wife spent a week in London. Paid $18 for a cup of coffee and a croissant. No BS. Forgive me if I don't want to live there.
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Show me a cheap city and I'll show you a city that either has low demand or else has enough room to grow to keep up with rising demand.
Yea, I know. It's why San Diego used to be such an expensive place to live. Why La Jolla is the most expensive city to live in the US. Because they simple have no place to build new homes.
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BTW, people from "all" economic backgrounds do live in "all" cities, cheap or expensive.
The difference is that when Chicago gets overbuilt (the last time it happened was the early 1990s, also a recessionary period) it's typically a very temporary condition, and within several years or so, the excess real estate inventory gets absorbed and supply/demand levels rebalance back to normal again. And then prices rebound and reach new highs again. Which is healthy.
I don't see that same dynamic happening in Cleveland. It's not just that housing prices are low there -- they stay low. Price appreciation from one decade to the next lags well behind the overall inflation rate. Which means that, in real terms, Cleveland homeowners actually lose money on their residential real estate over long periods of time. Not just temporarily.
An extreme case of this is the Gold Coast condos in Lakewood. Perfectly nice area even today -- one of greater Cleveland's most fabulously urban areas -- yet condo prices in most of those highrises are no higher than they were 20 years ago, and are probably lower than they were 30 years ago. I'm amazed at what you can pick up there for peanuts. Sure, low prices are attractive at the time you're buying, but what happens when you own a place for decades and prices have barely budged -- and meanwhile you've had to sink money into maintenance, taxes, etc.?
In parts of Chicago like Lakeview, in contrast, houses which sold for less than $20K in the 1970s are now worth $1 million or more. Meaning that a person who bought cheap back then and stayed in the home for decades can now cash out and retire on the money!
Where in Cleveland is that the case?
Chicago doesn't have a ''typical'' cycle of residential overbuilding; unlike, say, Florida, California or NYC. The latter places tend to boom-and-bust-and-boom. Chicago, in the early '90s, was overbuilt with commercial office buildings and it took years to absorb. Until that time, Chicago was in decline as were most rust-belt cities. The '90s turned out to be good for Chicago as it attracted 100k+ residents followed by the bubble-boom of residential real estate in the '00s. Since 2000, as we all know, 200k+ have left the City of Chicago; I know the reasoning "the project-people left" etc. but many were not project people. The pool of people wanting to buy the $1 million dollar Lakeview house is shrinking.
Chicago is severely overbuilt and it's amazing what you can pick-up in say the South Loop for peanuts; a big problem is trying to re-sell a condo in Chicago in general and the South Loop in particular. Building condos in Chicago's neighborhoods outside the northside up to say Irving Park Road has proven to be a huge financial mistake. So there is no ''typical'' cycle for Chicago in this sense.
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Originally Posted by bjimmy24
@andrew61
For living in a city that's so awesome and safe and world-class, you sure spend a lot of time talking trash about "inferior" cities on the internet...
Chicagoans do that in person as well, not just on the internet; talk about insecure. I've heard Chicago described as being a ''pretentious Milwaukee'' - not slamming Milwaukee.
Recent example of Chicago arrogance. Business call to Chicago rep, told him I was in Cleveland for business for two days, response: "I'm sorry." My response: "Sorry about what?" (I knew what was going on here and pretended to not understand what he was getting at); rep: "I like Chicago better"...ugh. Actually, I just saw the movie ''Bridesmaids'' with Kristen Wiig driving from meeting the pretentious Chicagoan, Helen, repeating the exchange "You live in Milwaukee?...I'm sorry"...LOL...it's so true!
Last edited by Yac; 09-21-2012 at 01:34 AM..
Reason: 3 posts in a row merged
Chicago doesn't have a ''typical'' cycle of residential overbuilding; unlike, say, Florida, California or NYC. The latter places tend to boom-and-bust-and-boom. Chicago, in the early '90s, was overbuilt with commercial office buildings and it took years to absorb. Until that time, Chicago was in decline as were most rust-belt cities. The '90s turned out to be good for Chicago as it attracted 100k+ residents followed by the bubble-boom of residential real estate in the '00s. Since 2000, as we all know, 200k+ have left the City of Chicago; I know the reasoning "the project-people left" etc. but many were not project people. The pool of people wanting to buy the $1 million dollar Lakeview house is shrinking.
Chicago is severely overbuilt and it's amazing what you can pick-up in say the South Loop for peanuts; a big problem is trying to re-sell a condo in Chicago in general and the South Loop in particular. Building condos in Chicago's neighborhoods outside the northside up to say Irving Park Road has proven to be a huge financial mistake. So there is no ''typical'' cycle for Chicago in this sense.
What are you talking about? The million dollar houses in lakeview and the condo developments up the north side are basically the only types of real estate in the city that DIDN'T turn into a financial mess during the past 5 years. Where do you live? You say odd things about Chicago and I'm not sure where you come up with it.
Downtown:
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It noted that developers’ unsold inventory continues to fall. It now stands at 1,229 units, the lowest Appraisal Research has recorded since it began its surveys in 1997. No new condo buildings in the central area were completed in 2011, and the report said only two small projects are due to arrive this year.
There are almost a dozen large apartment buildings under construction downtown at the moment. Those empty condo buildings were converted to rental buildings, and rents downtown are at their highest ever, with vacancy among the lowest ever.
Prices are down, but I wouldn't say it's overbuilt, because there are very few vacant units of anything downtown or on the north side. It's basically in a holding pattern as far as people turning units over. That's what's fallen off - the sales. The number of people continues to increase in the city except obviuosly for the south side and west sides that saw virtually all of the population losses during the 2000's. Those areas are still hard off.
What are you talking about? The million dollar houses in lakeview and the condo developments up the north side are basically the only types of real estate in the city that DIDN'T turn into a financial mess during the past 5 years. Where do you live? You say odd things about Chicago and I'm not sure where you come up with it.
Downtown:
There are almost a dozen large apartment buildings under construction downtown at the moment. Those empty condo buildings were converted to rental buildings, and rents downtown are at their highest ever, with vacancy among the lowest ever.
Prices are down, but I wouldn't say it's overbuilt, because there are very few vacant units of anything downtown or on the north side. It's basically in a holding pattern as far as people turning units over. That's what's fallen off - the sales. The number of people continues to increase in the city except obviuosly for the south side and west sides that saw virtually all of the population losses during the 2000's. Those areas are still hard off.
I am very familiar with Chicago's real estate market; the topic is real estate prices, not rental demand. What you consider odd, I consider facts. Good luck selling your million dollar condo without having a cash buyer. Appraisals are being slashed by mortgage underwriters to this day.
So why isn't the real estate market hot in Chicago? Especially the million dollar homes and condos that you claim are immune to the financial mess.
What are you talking about? The million dollar houses in lakeview and the condo developments up the north side are basically the only types of real estate in the city that DIDN'T turn into a financial mess during the past 5 years. Where do you live? You say odd things about Chicago and I'm not sure where you come up with it.
Downtown:
There are almost a dozen large apartment buildings under construction downtown at the moment. Those empty condo buildings were converted to rental buildings, and rents downtown are at their highest ever, with vacancy among the lowest ever.
Prices are down, but I wouldn't say it's overbuilt, because there are very few vacant units of anything downtown or on the north side. It's basically in a holding pattern as far as people turning units over. That's what's fallen off - the sales. The number of people continues to increase in the city except obviuosly for the south side and west sides that saw virtually all of the population losses during the 2000's. Those areas are still hard off.
By the way, the ''unsold'' units that were not turned into rentals. Rentals were not the intent of building these structures; developers have taken huge hits by trying to sell and now renting. The idea was to make money and turn the condo associations over to the owners and not sit on buildings for 5 years+.
By the way, if you're interested in south side vacant parcels, there are plenty for as low as $500.00 with no takers.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,323,169 times
Reputation: 3062
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Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector
What they should say is that the west and south sides of Chicago are well known for its murders. I also did read that Chicago's murder rate tops that of all Alpha world cities so far this year (Mexico City and Sao Paulo included). It's a problem that shouldn't be downplayed nor compared to that of cities 1/5 its size. Among the top 10 US cities in population, Chicago was #2 on the list for 2011.
Yes, I saw that list that showed Chicago having worse violent crime than Mexico City and Sao Paulo, and I found the news shocking indeed. After it was discussed on the Chicago forum, however, the question came up as to whether foreign countries count their crime rates just in the city proper (as the US does) or in the entire metro area. It was noted that if you use the Chicago metro area instead of just Chicago city, the murder rate comes out quite a bit lower. It's quite possible we're not comparing apples to apples here.
Yes, I saw that list that showed Chicago having worse violent crime than Mexico City and Sao Paulo, and I found the news shocking indeed. After it was discussed on the Chicago forum, however, the question came up as to whether foreign countries count their crime rates just in the city proper (as the US does) or in the entire metro area. It was noted that if you use the Chicago metro area instead of just Chicago city, the murder rate comes out quite a bit lower. It's quite possible we're not comparing apples to apples here.
Of course metro Chicago is safer, that's why almost 1 million people have left Chicago since the 1950s.
Note that Chicago's murder rate (per 100,000 population) is 15.2. Now note that Atlanta's is 17.3, Pittsburgh's is 17.6, Cleveland's is 19.0, Cincinnati's is 20.5, Buffalo's is 20.7, Kansas City's is 21.1, Washington DC's is 21.9, Detroit's is 34.5, Baltimore's is 34.8, and New Orleans' is a whopping 49.1.
So why should Chicago be "known for its murder"? Could it possibly be that the media have it in for Chicago? Why their silence on all these other cities that have even higher murder rates -- in some cases more than double than Chicago's?
Don't believe everything you hear or read in the news. Learn to do your own investigations and properly analyze things.
Oh, and it's not "far more spread out than Cleveland". Most of Chicago's violent crime occurs in a very small portion of the city relative to the whole. The vast majority of Chicago area-wise is about as safe as any urban area can be.
Philadelphia?! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Better contact the GaWC and tell them to downgrade Chicago from its Alpha+ rating. And all the other organizations that rank Chicago in the top ten worldwide in global economic influence. Tell them all that their methodology is obviously wrong, and that they should've contacted you first for your input.
I don't care if it is the media or not, when you have over 10 people killed in one weekend, that speaks volumes on your crime rate. There have been multiple events like that in Chicago just this past summer. "Philadelphia ha, ha, ha, ha, ha..." lol what are you, 12? Philadelphia has an awesome city core, a built-up cityscape that kicks Chicago's a$$, and much better architecture. You wanna bash Philly too? Classic troll!
We don't care about Chicago, yet you continue to talk it up in the Cleveland forum. You continue, CONTINUE!, to prove our point. If someone were talking about Chicago like you do in the Chicago forum, I certainly would expect these kind of responses. Thing is, we have been pretty nice to Chicago. Things can change though.
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