What Stereotypes Do You Hear About Cleveland? (Columbus, Cincinnati: fit in, hotel)

[WRosado]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Of all the stereotypes I've heard about Cleveland, that is certainly one I've never run across.

On the contrary: One of my biggest beefs about Cleveland is that it's excruciatingly staid and socially conservative and family oriented and there's not enough of a singles scene. Compared to most other major cities, at least.

Compared to most other major cities? No, just your opinion.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by rtm12

Not a lot of meaning to that ranking, or any like it. Cleveland is a very poor city overall, but if you're in a few choice industries, you'll do very, very well in Cleveland.

Emphasis on the "if". If you're not in those "few choice industries" -- and I'd venture most people are not -- you'll likely have to leave town to do really well... or else just stay in town and "settle" for less.

[WRosado]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Emphasis on the "if". If you're not in those "few choice industries" -- and I'd venture most people are not -- you'll likely have to leave town to do really well... or else just stay in town and "settle" for less.

I know plenty of people who do well in the city. I also know a lot of people from Chicago who live in Cleveland and do very well. I also know a guy from Chicago who trolls in Cleveland. Come on, respond. Why bash Cleveland when you don't even live here? Cleveland doesn't care about you, why do you come in here and post? Come on!!!!

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by 5Lakes

Furthermore, there is just no way the Chicago is easier on the wallet than Cleveland. Chicago might pay a bit more but it does not offset the higher cost of living by any means.

Well, all I can say is that wasn't my personal experience. After moving, I was able to afford housing that was more upscale and I still had more discretionary income left over after all the bills were paid than I ever did in Cleveland.

Of course, it's because I was able to snag a higher-paying position with my company that just wasn't available in the Cleveland area. Which brings me to another point.

The more expensive cities, in general, have lots more highly skilled and highly paid workers. The tech industry in the Bay Area, for example. Or, if a city's economic clout is truly global in scope, it will have a plethora of multinational corporations that are either headquartered in that city or have significant operations there. And those cities are where the major decisions are made and the important deals are done. And for that you need, in addition to the company's upper-management folks, available teams of highly-skilled people in support services -- law, accounting, advertising, etc. -- people who have special expertise that's needed in international markets, for example, laws and accounting practices in different countries where that company does business, etc. These people, because of their highly-specialized expertise, are very highly paid and can well afford the higher cost of living in the global city. Indeed, it's the presence of large numbers of such people that drives the cost of living in those cities up.

Now, such a company is also likely to have outposts in more second-tier cities such as Cleveland, but those are typically where the more routine stuff is done -- the "grunt work", if you will. Lower paying positions.

So anyway, that's how a city can be expensive and yet its residents are enjoying a higher standard of living there -- on average -- than those in the "cheap" cities.

Of course, not everyone is so lucky. Lots of people doing more routine work in the global cities as well, and they might not be as relatively well off economically as their counterparts in cities such as Cleveland.

Conversely, there are also people in the cheaper cities who do really well there without having to move. But there are relatively fewer of them.

Bottom line: It's not enough to just look at prices and declare this or that city as "affordable". Other factors have to be taken into consideration as well.

[QCongress83216]

Originally Posted by andrew61

I didn't bring Chicago up. Someone else did. Why don't you address the person who baited me?

Every time you post on this forum, you always way bash Cleveland. It's always something like, "Cleveland isn't a real city, it's more like a town", "Oh, Cleveland being cheap to live in is a stereotype, it's more expensive", or "Cleveland has a higher murder rate per capita than Chicago". Also, like Cleveland, your school system has problems, too. If that's your fair and balanced analysis then any car I put a Mercedes symbol on is Mercedes. You never have anything positive to say about Cleveland; all you talk about is how glad you left in '95 and you'll never come back. Your posts is always about how great Chicago is. That's why people don't respect Chicagoians like you because you all act like your s**t don't stink. Your pride that you show is more arrogance. In being proud, you're still humble and objective, but being arrogant, you become snobbish, rude and bias. You act all arrogant like Chicago is the best thing in the world, and everywhere else is messed up. Chicago is an expensive city and it does have one of, if not, the highest murder rates in the country. And, what the hell is a "real city" anyway? Nightlife, celebs, glamor and glitz, sports teams? You tell me.

And, I've been to Chicago twice and my girlfriend and I are about to visit there for Sweetest Day weekend. I enjoy visiting Chicago but I don't want to live there. You have to drive on the freeway to get anywhere in the city. In Cleveland, all you have to do is drive through the streets and you'll be where you wanna be in no time. Plus, the people there are too rude. I was at Pizzeria Uno, at the bar talking to this guy, and I told him I was from Cleveland. He looked me like I said I was from Mars or something. Also, some people bumped into me on the street and didn't say "Excuse me"; I understand you're hustling to get to where you need to go, but having good matters don't cost you nothing. I know people in Cleveland can be rude but people in Chicago are something else. At Cleveland can be upfront about its problems while Chicago wants to sweep their problems under the rug.

[Yac]

Stereotypes about Cleveland.
Not Chicago. Not "attack other member because he has a different point of view". Not "talk about random things".
Please focus on the original topic.
Yac.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by andrew61

On the contrary: One of my biggest beefs about Cleveland is that it's excruciatingly staid and socially conservative and family oriented and there's not enough of a singles scene. Compared to most other major cities, at least.

Well this stereotype is simply not true at all.
Cuyahoga County, generally speaking, is very liberal and not socially conservative at all. Ohio is staid and conservative. But Cleveland is NOT. In that was CHI and CLE are very similar. Most of Illinois is conservative. CHI is not.
Cleveland was the 2nd city in Ohio (behind very progressive Cleveland Heights) to create a Domestic Partner Registry as a way to get around the law that OHIO passed saying "marriage is for boys and girls".
COL and CLE are very liberal\progressive.
CIN and the rest of the state are not. I think part of this is the urban v rural aspect.
Another example. Bush v Kerry. George took 90% of Ohio. The 10% that Kerry got? COL + CLE.
Another: The Robert Maplethorpe exhibit of naked people many years ago.
Blew through Cleveland and Columbus with hardly a mention on the News.
Hit Cincy, and:
Cincinnati Jury Acquits Museum In Mapplethorpe Obscenity Case - New York Times

Now I have been trying to stay on point here, but it does seem you are just trying to stir the pot Andrew. Every few days you come in and drop another stereotype.. or "beef" that we lifelong Clevelands have never heard of. "Settling?, Conservative?"

No single scene??? When's the last time you visited?

[5Lakes]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Well, all I can say is that wasn't my personal experience. After moving, I was able to afford housing that was more upscale and I still had more discretionary income left over after all the bills were paid than I ever did in Cleveland.

Of course, it's because I was able to snag a higher-paying position with my company that just wasn't available in the Cleveland area. Which brings me to another point.

The more expensive cities, in general, have lots more highly skilled and highly paid workers. The tech industry in the Bay Area, for example. Or, if a city's economic clout is truly global in scope, it will have a plethora of multinational corporations that are either headquartered in that city or have significant operations there. And those cities are where the major decisions are made and the important deals are done. And for that you need, in addition to the company's upper-management folks, available teams of highly-skilled people in support services -- law, accounting, advertising, etc. -- people who have special expertise that's needed in international markets, for example, laws and accounting practices in different countries where that company does business, etc. These people, because of their highly-specialized expertise, are very highly paid and can well afford the higher cost of living in the global city. Indeed, it's the presence of large numbers of such people that drives the cost of living in those cities up.

Now, such a company is also likely to have outposts in more second-tier cities such as Cleveland, but those are typically where the more routine stuff is done -- the "grunt work", if you will. Lower paying positions.

So anyway, that's how a city can be expensive and yet its residents are enjoying a higher standard of living there -- on average -- than those in the "cheap" cities.

Of course, not everyone is so lucky. Lots of people doing more routine work in the global cities as well, and they might not be as relatively well off economically as their counterparts in cities such as Cleveland.

Conversely, there are also people in the cheaper cities who do really well there without having to move. But there are relatively fewer of them.

Bottom line: It's not enough to just look at prices and declare this or that city as "affordable". Other factors have to be taken into consideration as well.

Most of my friends in Cleveland are professionals with good paying jobs just like my friends in Chicago. Actually my most successful friends live in Cleveland (well, Lakewood actually).

I would expect Chicago to offer a wider range of certain industries to work in since it's so large. I recognize in certain circumstances it will be necessary for people to move to places with more options. For example I do know some traders in Chicago who could not have those jobs in Cleveland or in most cities. Then again there are professional fields in Cleveland that may provide for a more successful career than in Chicago; such as medical, mechanical engineering, law, or accounting. For educated professionals working equivalent jobs in both Cleveland and Chicago, the person in Cleveland will be better off financially. Personally, being in Chicago does not do much for my profession (engineering) and I would be best suited to move to Texas or the west coast. Then again, money is not everything and Chicago's urban lifestyle keeps me hear for the time being.

I would also disagree about more expensive cities always having more skilled workers and jobs for them. Cost of living pretty much comes down to supply and demand, which has many variables. Portland is an expensive city with few jobs to support that. San Diego is another city with a high cost of living with relatively low paying jobs (with the exception of a couple of specific industries).

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Well this stereotype is simply not true at all.
Cuyahoga County, generally speaking, is very liberal and not socially conservative at all. Ohio is staid and conservative. But Cleveland is NOT. In that was CHI and CLE are very similar. Most of Illinois is conservative. CHI is not.
Cleveland was the 2nd city in Ohio (behind very progressive Cleveland Heights) to create a Domestic Partner Registry as a way to get around the law that OHIO passed saying "marriage is for boys and girls".
COL and CLE are very liberal\progressive.
CIN and the rest of the state are not. I think part of this is the urban v rural aspect.
Another example. Bush v Kerry. George took 90% of Ohio. The 10% that Kerry got? COL + CLE.
Another: The Robert Maplethorpe exhibit of naked people many years ago.
Blew through Cleveland and Columbus with hardly a mention on the News.
Hit Cincy, and:
Cincinnati Jury Acquits Museum In Mapplethorpe Obscenity Case - New York Times

Now I have been trying to stay on point here, but it does seem you are just trying to stir the pot Andrew. Every few days you come in and drop another stereotype.. or "beef" that we lifelong Clevelands have never heard of. "Settling?, Conservative?"

No single scene??? When's the last time you visited?

Please reread my post. I never said Cleveland had "no" singles scene.

Whether Cleveland is "socially conservative" or not depends on what you're comparing it to. Compared to most places in the so-called "Bible Belt", for example, Cleveland does indeed come across as very liberal. Compared to many other major cities on the East and West Coasts (and yes, Chicago as well), not so much.

The fact that Cleveland/Cuyahoga County votes Democrat doesn't mean it is socially liberal. Cleveland is more populist than anything: economic/fiscally liberal, socially conservative. It's the old school blue collar mentality. Voting Democrat in Cleveland is more about supporting union jobs and wealth redistribution than it is about abortion and gay rights.

And just because the powers that be have passed domestic partnership legislation and things like that in a few municipalities, it doesn't mean all the people are behind that sort of thing. The vast majority of the denizens of Cuyahoga County don't necessarily think like people in Cleveland Heights.

[Peregrine]

I didn't mean to imply by the Bush-Kerry comment that we vote Dem while Ohio votes Rep. Although we usually do.

Just that CLE voted for the more liberal and progressive candidate while most of the state voted for the same old safe route...