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You are right. All schools do not require math. Advanced math is useless to people in many professions. I have no problem with people taking a a course called "History of Math and it's present day applications.
Reading and speaking are not the same as numbers. In education or in real life.
I suggest you just buck up and pass a math class. I didn't get to pass a class called "History of Writing" or "History of Reading" when I got by BS in engineering. I had to write a thesis to get my BS.
There should be a national test of math for high school students. It should be as hard as the so-called "college algebra".
Those who fail should NOT BE ALLOWED to go to college.
No, it is not too tough. Many countries do that including all countries in East Asia.
I by no means am an expert or even aware of dyscalculia, but I wonder if it isn't an attempt to cover for the horrible math pedagogy in this country. After being a STEM teacher, I'm of the thinking that we're deliberately trying to make math illiterates. The text books are, for the most part, trash, they don't tie in with earlier ideas and concepts. We teach subject individually, again, no tie in between earlier concepts or subjects, e.g., how does algebra and geometry work in a 2-d plane, it isn't that hard to understand but only if it's actually taught, which it isn't, or the concept of a pure number, which again, if it is taught, is extremely informative and easy to understand, but is never talked about, despite its importance. It's no wonder people hate math, it is taught so incoherently....
Math is taught wrong, I agree. For one, math is logic; it is either true or it is false. There is no middle ground, no grey area. That is a tough concept to accept since most Americans are taught to think abstractly from birth. There will always be room for new mathematical thought, but math itself does not do so well outside of the box.
There are two fundamental reasons why we learn math. The first is to eventually learn calculus. All of those years you spend graphing and finding the slope all make complete sense when you begin to do calculus. The other is that learning math is to learn how to reduce a problem, to break it down into manageable parts. You do not need to study math in order to learn that skill, however, that is its intention. Once again, this makes more sense when you begin to study calculus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordula
As a friend noted, it's not like you'll be using anything beyond fifth grade math in the real world. BUT the schools added that as a requirement.
I had always believed that all schools asked for math, but this isn't the case.
You may or may not use more than "fifth grade math" in the real world, but you do use math every day of your life. It is so common place in your thinking that you may not even realize it. You know that 5,640 means 5,000 + 600 + 40. You know that zero is empty, but it can be split into 1 and -1. You know there are infinitely small numbers, so small they are not detectable, yet, are still not zero. You know you can have less-than-nothing, a negative number. How do you know that, well, look at debt. Or think of the basement-it is below the ground, or below the first floor if you are American. You know that there are infinite numbers between 1 and 2. You know that a positive has a negative and that the negative is simply acting in an opposite manner. And to top it off, we even have a unique word for each individual number.
All of the above are mathematical concepts that at one point in time were completely unthinkable. You may not be able to explain the concept of zero, but you know what it is. You don't even need to think about it. You also have extensive understanding of symbology. You can recognize combinations of letters without conscious thought. Shapes and logos, too.
I am not saying that math is necessarily easy, but some make it unnecessarily difficult.
However, I truly believe the key to learning math is to have the desire to learn it. If you go into it thinking it is ridiculous, you will never use it, what is the point, why learn this; you will struggle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordula
If we have people who have dyslexia, how is the number version a cover? I really am not able to do advanced math equations. It's complicated. The counselor and math teacher at my high school pointed out that I seem to have memory loss. They would show me how to do a problem several times, but I would always forget.
I would imagine that the "number version" is either dyslexia itself or an executive dysfunction, in particular, since you always forget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish
There should be a national test of math for high school students. It should be as hard as the so-called "college algebra".
Those who fail should NOT BE ALLOWED to go to college.
No, it is not too tough. Many countries do that including all countries in East Asia.
Well, in high school students learn algebra over the course of one year with trig and (pre?) pre calculus falling into the second half. In college, those two semesters are condensed into one. The math and concepts are no different, just more intense.
But there is a national test for high school students planing on entering college. It is called the SAT, and, ACT. Granted, a "non competitive" score will not keep applicants out of all universities, it might be enough to prevent them from the top schools however. In Asian countries students, in some cases literally, kill themselves in order to get into college. How many colleges are in China (including Hong Kong), just under 2,500? There are roughly 4,500 degree granting institutions in the U.S., with roughly 2,800 of those being 4-year. In China, there are 20,000,000 college students. In the U.S., about 23,000,000 in all 4,500 colleges. The population of China is 1,344,130,000 people. The population of the U.S. is 313,914,040. Clearly, there is simply way less competition to attend college in the U.S.
There should be a national test of math for high school students. It should be as hard as the so-called "college algebra".
Those who fail should NOT BE ALLOWED to go to college.
No, it is not too tough. Many countries do that including all countries in East Asia.
I went to part of high school, sat for my entrance exams and then went to college in East Asia before transferring back to the US. The above is not true. There is a universal college entrance exam (sort of like the SAT) and the scores determined WHICH college you went to (again like the SAT) not WHETHER or not you could go to college.
Additionally, those exams are almost exclusive for national or public schools. They do HAVE private schools which do take kids who do not score well enough to get into the public schools.
Also, many kids who do not score well enough to get into the publics just take a year off to prep for the entrance exams and then try again (most of whom are then successful at that point).
This system is common in Japan, China, the Philippines, and somewhat in Hong Kong (though it has elements of the UK system as well). Japan also has a junior college system similar to the US for kid who do not get into the public schools as well.
Hell, South Korea has an admissions exam (actually called the SAT) and includes grades and other criteria much like the American system.
The idea that A. there is a universal pass score on the entrance exams in Asia is not true and B. that scoring badly on the exams means one cannot go to college is also not true.
I suggest you just buck up and pass a math class. I didn't get to pass a class called "History of Writing" or "History of Reading" when I got by BS in engineering. I had to write a thesis to get my BS.
I graduated from college a long time ago. Since your BS was in engineering, your bias is obvious.
I'd suggest you read the thread more thoroughly and work on your reading comprehension skills before telling me to "buck up and pass a math course". I've in fact passed two college math classes, yet in my undergrad studies, I was never required to take math.
I have infinite compassion for people who struggle with this subject.
Your few English classes required of a typical engineering major did not require you to work in literature. Only to read it and study it. Which you did. However you were not required to produce a work of literature. That is my point.
The OP in this thread is trying to argue that a student should be able to graduate from college without passing math. If dyscalcula (or whatever its called) is a true disability then students should get assistance in overcoming their disability, not an exemption from math.
It is truly a disability recognized under the American's With Disabilities Act.
I started this thread in order to educate people about this disorder, duscalculia.org
So far I have informed one poster of her rights under this Act, and she is on her way to her college degree.
I graduated from college a long time ago. Since your BS was in engineering, your bias is obvious.
I'd suggest you read the thread more thoroughly and work on your reading comprehension skills before telling me to "buck up and pass a math course". I've in fact passed two college math classes, yet in my undergrad studies, I was never required to take math.
I have infinite compassion for people who struggle with this subject.
Your few English classes required of a typical engineering major did not require you to work in literature. Only to read it and study it. Which you did. However you were not required to produce a work of literature. That is my point.
Now buck up and re-read the thread.
Writing literature is not the equivalent skill of basic (algebra is not an advanced math btw) math. Basic writing and reading are the equivalent skills.
Is there even such a thing as "college level algebra? I have never heard of college giving credit for Algebra. At every school I have attended it is considered a remedial class as it is considered a high school subject.....Anyway...
Algebra takes basic math skills and uses them to analyze and make connections. So in the reading realm the equivalent is analyzing various pieces. In the writing realm, the more complex skill is not to create a piece of artistic writing but rather to demonstrate the ability to communicate more complex and abstract ideas clearly.
Writing original literature is more equivalent to the much more complex math skills like designing algorithms or developing novel proofs NOT algebra 101.
So if people with technical or scientific degrees are required to write original technical papers communicating abstract ideas and make novel connections between those ideas to demonstrate a grasp of mid levels writing skills (and we are btw). Than it is not beyond the pale to expect a humanties student to demonstrate proficiency (pass) a non-advanced (I can't even bring myself to call it middling) level course like Algebra.
People who are dyslexic in a good program in engineering or science are NOT EXEMPT from learning technical writing, or reading scientific papers (which can be incredibly complex).
I by no means am an expert or even aware of dyscalculia, but I wonder if it isn't an attempt to cover for the horrible math pedagogy in this country. After being a STEM teacher, I'm of the thinking that we're deliberately trying to make math illiterates. The text books are, for the most part, trash, they don't tie in with earlier ideas and concepts. We teach subject individually, again, no tie in between earlier concepts or subjects, e.g., how does algebra and geometry work in a 2-d plane, it isn't that hard to understand but only if it's actually taught, which it isn't, or the concept of a pure number, which again, if it is taught, is extremely informative and easy to understand, but is never talked about, despite its importance. It's no wonder people hate math, it is taught so incoherently....
I agree that Math is taught horribly in this country and I am not good in it. I think that there is much room for improvement in the way that mathematics is taught.
However, there is a difference between my dislike for math and a possible case of "math anxiety" and a diagnosed case of dyscalculia.
Look, I'll admit it is not as well known as dyslexia, however it does exist. Please visit the web site dyscaculia.org for further information.
Writing literature is not the equivalent skill of basic (algebra is not an advanced math btw) math. Basic writing and reading are the equivalent skills.
Is there even such a thing as "college level algebra? I have never heard of college giving credit for Algebra. At every school I have attended it is considered a remedial class as it is considered a high school subject.....Anyway...
Algebra takes basic math skills and uses them to analyze and make connections. So in the reading realm the equivalent is analyzing various pieces. In the writing realm, the more complex skill is not to create a piece of artistic writing but rather to demonstrate the ability to communicate more complex and abstract ideas clearly.
Writing original literature is more equivalent to the much more complex math skills like designing algorithms or developing novel proofs NOT algebra 101.
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