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The following colleges do not require math- Emerson College MA
Fairly Dickenson U NJ
Colby Sawyer College NH
Davis and Elkins College WV
Pine Manor College MA
Grandview Univerity IA
Syracuse University NY
Marist College NY
CW Post College NY
I don't want to hijack this thread, but since it might be dyscalculia related it seems like it could be the right place. I am a chemistry professor, and lately I have been asked to review a number of textbooks for non majors level introductory chemistry. While majors level chemistry is fairly intense on the algebra with a smattering of calculus, the non majors level chemistry has a whole lot less math. I noticed that in many of the text books, the math concepts are presented twice: once as a series of equations using numbers and the other time as a series of diagrams with no numbers at all. For example, PV=nRT would be the equation for the gas laws, but then a series of diagrams would be shown to illustrate how changing each parameter can cause changes in the others.
In one book the end of chapter problems were even segregated to a "math version" and a "diagram version". I had assumed that this was to help reinforce concepts, but after reading this thread I am beginning to suspect that the books will be pitched as accommodating for dyscalculia affected individuals. For a core or general studies requirement, I see this is a valuable option for many students.
Still, abstract quantitative thought is something that is very valuable for many people to have in their mental toolkit, so it is important that the rigor of college level mathematics is maintained. Many if not most students that fail general chemistry do not have a learning disability, they just don't work hard enough or they don't have the aptitude for science. I am not happy with the way that ADHD is diagnosed and accommodated, and I would not like to see students with a real disability be exploited because the path of least resistance for marginal students involves simulating a disability.
I noticed my alma mater, Kenyon College, was on the OP's list. My senior year roomate was one of the people that didn't take a single math course. I don't think he was bad at math, he was just interested in other things. He is the mayor of a small mining town in Kentucky or West Virginia now. (An odd place for the son of D.C. lawyers to end up, but he was an odd guy).
I will look into this. My source was secondary, not primary and was gleaned from the Dyscaculia web site, which I find in my work to be accurate.Your informational taken from the college web site or catalog reflects the mission statement of the college. It could be that they do not require mathematics, per se, and except a substitution in the sciences. Also if you will re-read the mission statement, science and mathematics are taken as one People with Dycalculia are often quite interested in, and skilled at Science, as long as there is a not a heavy math component.
There is no magic to what I did. I went to the college website. If I wanted to know more I am sure I could find out just by poking around a little. I don't see how you can pass chemistry or physics without math.
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Originally Posted by sheena12
There are many students who have excellent grades, and board scores, who score well on the SAT II subject tests, are intellectually curious and motivated academically, but do not wish to study college algebra.
These students are not academic slouches. The want to learn and want to obtain an undergraduate degree and in many cases a graduate degree. It would be tragic if students such as these were denied this opportunity because of a deficiency or a disinterest in one subject.
STEM students have to study the humanities. Humanities students should have to study math. If they are truly good students they will find a way to eek out their C. If they have dyscaculia then they should seek accommodations not seek to avoid. Students who are dyslexic still have to read and write. They have to learn to manage their disability not avoid dealing with it. If they just don't like math then too bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
At any rate our moderator has spoken and you are welcome to be involved with this thread (Mod cut)
Why wouldn't I be welcome?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
Also, I did not appreciate being called out and told to "buck up" and to take a math course or learn to live without a college degree, or something to that effect. Your comment was rude and uncalled for.
I'm sorry I offended you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
Her self esteem was badly wounded and she fell into a depression, that required hospitalization. This is a student who never took a remedial course in her life, and she has found herself at age twenty, failing her third. She was always a high achiever and the failure in a subject that in which she has no particular interest, was a huge blow to her young ego,
If you are a nurse I am sure that you know that mental illness frequently rears its ugly head in the late teens/early 20s. I am sorry that failing math was a trigger for this young woman. I am very familiar with mental illness as I have close friends and family members who have been touched by depression and anxiety. The thing is that if math wasn't the trigger, something else likely would be the trigger.
At any rate I hope that she is able to recover and live a normal life once again. Finishing a BA is the least of her worries. One thing her parents should look into is appealing her failing grades if they can be attributed to mental illness. One of my friends was able to get an entire semster's worth of grades removed from her academic record due to severe depression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
When she is well enough, she will take a battery of tests to determine if she meets the diagnostic criteria to be exempted from math. If she does, she will be covered under The Americans with disabilities Act. If she does not actually have Dyscalculia, she faces the task of finding a college or university that will not force her to take a subject that almost killed her.
It isn't the math that almost killed her. It's the depression. The math was just the trigger. It could have been anything. At any rate college is the least of her problems right now. I hope she feels better.
Oh, give me a break! I once heard a BBC announcer refer to Sweden, Sweden mind you, as a "third world country". I'd bet the farm the bold is untrue. I'd like to see some documentation for the blue as well.
Remember when the Gulf War occured it was a major topic of interest that (many) Americans could not find Iraq on a map, nor cared? If you are curious about what was colored blue, research the subject when you have a moment. I took a gamble with what I wrote, hence I'll bet. Generalizations exists on both sides, yet, I still stand by what I wrote. Ultimately, I do not think the British model would work in the U.S.
As for schools with no math requirement, I believe that in general programs in the humanities require little to no math at many schools. The same process, language, and symbology used to develop proofs and conjectures is the same in math as it is in philosophy/logic/reasoning. That is why math used to be considered philosophy (maybe it still is?) and why many schools offer at least one course in reasoning to fulfill math requirements for non-STEM majors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
The following colleges do not require math- Emerson College MA
Fairly Dickenson U NJ
Colby Sawyer College NH
Davis and Elkins College WV
Pine Manor College MA
Grandview Univerity IA
Syracuse University NY
Marist College NY
CW Post College NY
Emerson is a communications/media school. I had a few friends that attended while I was going to school in Boston, they were all majoring in journalism, so it is not surprising that this school is on the list. Emerson does have three math courses, though; stats, "college math", and business math. As for Pine Manor; despite being in Chestnut Hill and near Boston College, it is not the hoity toity all-women's college it once was. Admissions focuses more on "life experiences" than it does GPA or SAT scores. I am glad the school exists, though. And they do offer calc I and calc II.
A friend of mine went to Marist. She really loved it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
The following university offers a math course that is designed especially for dycalculiacs - Northeastern University MA
Northeastern University located in Boston MA is rated "Highly Competitive +" by
"Profiles in American Colleges - 2013 edition"
I do not think Northeastern gets the respect it deserves, but being a large university in vincinity of BC, BU, Tufts (who does not get respect, either, it seems), MIT, and Harvard, I can understand why it is over looked. They have a co-op program were students work part time during their last two years or so while going to school part time. It takes five years to complete the program, but students graduate with two years of valid work experience in their field.
Anything beyond Algebra I is largely useless for the vast majority of the population. I've never used any Algebra II material since I graduated high school 4 years ago and I almost didn't even graduate because of that ONE class.
So, it's a good thing that not all colleges require higher level mathematics to graduate. Not everyone should have to struggle in something useless and something that they're never going to use in order to move ahead in life.
I looked up Davis and Elkins College b/c that is one school the counselors at my HS encouraged us to look at. They do in fact require not one but two math courses.
Anything beyond Algebra I is largely useless for the vast majority of the population. I've never used any Algebra II material since I graduated high school 4 years ago and I almost didn't even graduate because of that ONE class.
So, it's a good thing that not all colleges require higher level mathematics to graduate. Not everyone should have to struggle in something useless and something that they're never going to use in order to move ahead in life.
Algebra II is the devil for me.
Sadly, I think you are right. I have hardly ever used Algebra, much less Calculus, and my life's work has been in a relatively technical field. The notion that future social workers and ballet dancers need to master higher mathematics needs re-examination.
OTOH, I meet 'grown-ups' who have trouble with arithmetic sometimes.
I don't want to hijack this thread, but since it might be dyscalculia related it seems like it could be the right place. I am a chemistry professor, and lately I have been asked to review a number of textbooks for non majors level introductory chemistry. While majors level chemistry is fairly intense on the algebra with a smattering of calculus, the non majors level chemistry has a whole lot less math. I noticed that in many of the text books, the math concepts are presented twice: once as a series of equations using numbers and the other time as a series of diagrams with no numbers at all. For example, PV=nRT would be the equation for the gas laws, but then a series of diagrams would be shown to illustrate how changing each parameter can cause changes in the others.
In one book the end of chapter problems were even segregated to a "math version" and a "diagram version". I had assumed that this was to help reinforce concepts, but after reading this thread I am beginning to suspect that the books will be pitched as accommodating for dyscalculia affected individuals. For a core or general studies requirement, I see this is a valuable option for many students.
Still, abstract quantitative thought is something that is very valuable for many people to have in their mental toolkit, so it is important that the rigor of college level mathematics is maintained. Many if not most students that fail general chemistry do not have a learning disability, they just don't work hard enough or they don't have the aptitude for science. I am not happy with the way that ADHD is diagnosed and accommodated, and I would not like to see students with a real disability be exploited because the path of least resistance for marginal students involves simulating a disability.
I noticed my alma mater, Kenyon College, was on the OP's list. My senior year roomate was one of the people that didn't take a single math course. I don't think he was bad at math, he was just interested in other things. He is the mayor of a small mining town in Kentucky or West Virginia now. (An odd place for the son of D.C. lawyers to end up, but he was an odd guy).
Thank you for an interesting post. I don't know if dyscalculia is the reason. I highly doubt it. I think that many people are so completely unaware of this disorder,at least at this point, that I doubt they are adjusting a text book for that something that many people do not even think exists. To a dycaluliac, both the "math version" and the "diagram version" will be read as "mathematics".And not only to dyscaluliacs but to people such as myself, who actually have two separate IQ scores. More likely the reason is to teach a subject in a new or watered down way to students who are a captive audience, because they want to graduate from college some day. They really do not want to take that class. They want to get back to the business of studying their passions, interests and talents.
While I appreciate your comments, I don't agree with much of the content. I do not think that you are trying to hijack the thread. I think instead that you are trying to figure things out. Chemistry, math and calculus are beautiful and deeply enriching for you, not only in the class room but in everyday life. You think about them quite a bit, and view many things in life through a "mathematical and physical science lens", if you will. I do not doubt that many people who are quite intelligent enjoy these subjects and are passionate about them. I am passionate about the lens through which I view the world: a "sociological, psychological and literary lens". That is how I think.
Your concern that "marginal students" may be trying to "fake dycalculia" is not grounded in reality. I am confused as to how a disabled student could be "exploited," if marginal students attempt to "simulate a disability". I would like to hear your thoughts about this. Perhaps you could send me a direct message, because I fear that we will stray from the subject at hand. I am also interested in what you dislike about the way that ADHD students are accommodated and diagnosed. Having worked in DSS, we had many satisfied customers. I particularly like the TOVA test.
Marginal students are generally homogeneously marginal, earning C's in English Comp, Chem and Poly Sci alike. They are the intellectually and academically marginal. There are colleges for people who are academically and intellectually marginal. They are not attending your alma mater or mine. They are going to schools that accept them. Schools that are ranked "less competitive" and "competitive".
Furthermore, there is no great conspiracy to water down math or chemistry.Your belief that the subjects that you love and excel at, are needed , and your belief that people for whom these subjects do not resonate, are automatically missing out on something. They don't feel that they are missing out of these subjects at all. You have also lumped together "quantitative thought" and "abstract thought" All intellectually engaged individuals think in abstract ways, whereas not all intellectual people think in, or need to think in quantitative ways.
They are not lacking intellectually and dycalculiacs are people who are quite brilliant. Often their aggregate IQs fall into the superior range. Many of them would like nothing more than to excel in every subject in school. If you read the example of my friend's daughter, you would see what I mean.
General education requirements, with which you seem to be in agreement, assume that all students need to be be "well- rounded." I do not agree with this assumption. I think that college students should select a major and then choose from the subjects that are available to her. This does not frighten me in the least. Kenyon is a fine college. My college sophomore roomate's eldest brother attended there, coincidentally. At the time, my university had no distributional requirements, and I cannot think of a single student who abused that privilege.We loved it! It gave us the opportunity to delve more deeply into the subjects that interested us. I attended college in the late 1970s and early 80s. It was thought that an Open Curriculum and the 4 - 4 plan were the waves of the future, and that all "in loco parentis" based rules would be done away with by the year 2000.
As you know, a variety of socio-political trends in the 1980s, put an end to that.
Another of my favorite Ohio liberal arts colleges, Antioch College, is back in business. The conservative mores of the 80s and 90s closed the doors of this old and venerable institution. As of 2 years ago, it has reopened. Antioch was one of the first colleges to pioneer progressive education.
My son, who was in the thick of the college application process last year, was looking at their web site. We both laughed at the quote of the director of admissions, who stated, "While many colleges are seeking the well rounded student, here at Antioch, we have a deep appreciation for the 'well lopsided student'." I share that appreciation.
With reference to your former roomate at Kenyon, what is so unusual about not taking math for four years, if that subject was not of interest to him? I see nothing wrong with being the mayor of a small mining town in the Appalachians. Perhaps he is under less pressure than his parents, the Belt Way lawyers. Perhaps he enjoys the slow pace and the beauty of the mountains. He actually sound interesting to me, He also may be writing a great book or enjoying the relative simplicity of his life.
Perhaps he is happy ! Then he is a well educated and happy man who was able to chose a road less traveled. Nothing wrong with that!
Remember when the Gulf War occured it was a major topic of interest that (many) Americans could not find Iraq on a map, nor cared? If you are curious about what was colored blue, research the subject when you have a moment. I took a gamble with what I wrote, hence I'll bet. Generalizations exists on both sides, yet, I still stand by what I wrote. Ultimately, I do not think the British model would work in the U.S.
As for schools with no math requirement, I believe that in general programs in the humanities require little to no math at many schools. The same process, language, and symbology used to develop proofs and conjectures is the same in math as it is in philosophy/logic/reasoning. That is why math used to be considered philosophy (maybe it still is?) and why many schools offer at least one course in reasoning to fulfill math requirements for non-STEM majors.
Emerson is a communications/media school. I had a few friends that attended while I was going to school in Boston, they were all majoring in journalism, so it is not surprising that this school is on the list. Emerson does have three math courses, though; stats, "college math", and business math. As for Pine Manor; despite being in Chestnut Hill and near Boston College, it is not the hoity toity all-women's college it once was. Admissions focuses more on "life experiences" than it does GPA or SAT scores. I am glad the school exists, though. And they do offer calc I and calc II.
A friend of mine went to Marist. She really loved it.
I do not think Northeastern gets the respect it deserves, but being a large university in vincinity of BC, BU, Tufts (who does not get respect, either, it seems), MIT, and Harvard, I can understand why it is over looked. They have a co-op program were students work part time during their last two years or so while going to school part time. It takes five years to complete the program, but students graduate with two years of valid work experience in their field.
Nice post! I am not only including colleges ranked "very to highly competitive or most competitive" colleges. I am also including colleges that are for the average student.
I went to college for the first three years about 40 miles outside of Boston, and I admit that I was shocked that Northeastern was ranked "highly competitive". I knew people who went there and they were mostly C+ - B students. In this day, many young people choose "destination colleges". I see a trend of students avoiding perfectly good schools that are in less than exciting places (such as upstate NY) for colleges that are in cities, good climates, near the slopes, or the or waves. It has benefited some colleges - University of Miami was a party school in my day, now not so much. NYU is another college that has benefited from this trend.
I date my self, but Pine Manor was once a finishing school for women, Then, it was upgraded to a women's junior college. Yes it did cater to the "Social Register Set" - but those who could not gain entrnace to the Seven Sisters schools. Now it does have a very different group of students.
I'm not endorsing or knocking any of these schools, though. The purpose of the thread is to educate people about colleges that do not require Math courses for graduation. Judging from the positive feed back that I have received, there are many people who are interested in this subject.
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I do not think that you are trying to hijack the thread. I think instead that you are trying to figure things out. Chemistry, math and calculus are beautiful and deeply enriching for you, not only in the class room but in everyday life. You think about them quite a bit, and view many things in life through a "mathematical and physical science lens", if you will. I do not doubt that many people who are quite intelligent enjoy these subjects and are passionate about them. I am passionate about the lens through which I view the world: a "sociological, psychological and literary lens". That is how I think. 
I would like to hear your thoughts about this. Perhaps you could send me a direct message, because I fear that we will stray from the subject at hand. I am also interested in what you dislike about the way that ADHD students are accommodated and diagnosed. Having worked in DSS, we had many satisfied customers. I particularly like the TOVA test.
At the time, my university had no distributional requirements, and I cannot think of a single student who abused that privilege.We loved it! It gave us the opportunity to delve more deeply into the subjects that interested us. I attended college in the late 1970s and early 80s. It was thought that an Open Curriculum and the 4 - 4 plan were the waves of the future, and that all "in loco parentis" based rules would be done away with by the year 2000. 
