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I misread what you originally stated, for whatever reason I thought you were talking about financial contributions. Many state schools have little if any research going on, they are primarily educational institutions. But most important research comes out of the top universities, this is only natural. Why would a brilliant professor work at a state school for less when they can instead work at Yale?
You are vastly incorrect here. Virtually every state has a "flagship university" that is a research institution. Many of these are highly rated. 16 of them are in the US News top 50 national universities.
I don't know of any major where state colleges would be superior, what major are you talking about?
How about engineering/physics at the University of Illinois? Biology and other life sciences at UC-Irvine? And many others.
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The top programs are usually at the top universities which are private. There are some exceptions, but they are exceptions and not the rule. If some particular major can't be found at the top 20 schools that I would suggest that perhaps that major is not worth studying.
That is just nonsense.
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Your attitude is lower-middle class (e.g., your ending comment here), but I don't know you so I'm not going to try and elaborate on anything. I'm speaking about people in general, not you personally. There are obvious social class distinctions between your local state college and an Ivy League, someone regardless of intelligence from a lower middle-class family may not feel comfortable at an Ivy League because they don't "fit in".
You are vastly incorrect here. Virtually every state has a "flagship university" that is a research institution. Many of these are highly rated. 16 of them are in the US News top 50 national universities.
Out of the top 51 US research schools, 26 are private and 25 are public. Now, before you retort with by saying that the top five are private, keep in mind that there are roughly 4,000 colleges and universities in the US. Being in the top 51, out of that 4000, is still in the top 1-2% of all US colleges.
K-Luv, thanks for this posting. I am not big on USNWR rankings either, mainly because their measurements are biased toward private schools.
There are many private and public schools that have a strong emphasis on research. In fact, there are 199 Carnegie Research Universities with Very High (96) or High (103) research activity.
The brochure that you posted shows just how many public universities have Very High research activity. It's simply a misnomer that high research activity is limited to top private schools.
I am not big on the USN list, and I disagree with some of its choices. I like your list better, K-Luv. I still don't understand how Penn State seems to make both lists.
No one has ever won a Nobel Prize while serving on the Penn State faculty. No one who has served on the Penn State faculty has won a Nobel Prize after leaving Penn State. Penn State has never hired a faculty member with a Nobel Prize. No one with an advanced degree from Penn State has ever won a Nobel Prize.
I don't know of any major where state colleges would be superior, what major are you talking about? The top programs are usually at the top universities which are private. There are some exceptions, but they are exceptions and not the rule. If some particular major can't be found at the top 20 schools that I would suggest that perhaps that major is not worth studying.
My major is Geography. For whatever reason, it is more common to find this major at state schools. After a quick search on college board, 46 private colleges offer this major while 263 public colleges do. The only Ivy League with a Geography major is Dartmouth. I also was interested in going to college in an area of the country where private schools aren't very popular. I placed just as much importance on the location as I did on the college itself. After all, I want to be happy with my surroundings.
State universities tend to have a more extensive list of majors because they often have a lot of students and want to cater to all of them.
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Originally Posted by user_id
Your attitude is lower-middle class (e.g., your ending comment here), but I don't know you so I'm not going to try and elaborate on anything. I'm speaking about people in general, not you personally. There are obvious social class distinctions between your local state college and an Ivy League, someone regardless of intelligence from a lower middle-class family may not feel comfortable at an Ivy League because they don't "fit in".
I will not go into detail on my family's finances or what my dad does for a living, but we are far from lower middle class. Your statement about lower middle class people not fitting in at an Ivy League college is ironic because Ivy League colleges are concerned with making their school affordable for poor people (like you said earlier, a lot of people don't pay the sticker price). For example, Harvard gives you free tuition if your family makes under $60,000 a year. You basically have to either be poor, a legacy, or super rich to go to an ivy league. I know middle-upper middle class people that got into an ivy league school but couldn't go because they didn't get any money from the school (in other words, they would have had to pay the sticker price).
A few words about this issue. I, too, am noticing a lot of people going to graduate school because the economy is so bad right now for those that just graduated from college. As far as I am concered, the 4 year bachelors degree today has become equal to a high school diploma. A graduate degree today is looked upon by more employers as a requirement for advacement and if you are going to be hired. So what is going to happen in 10-15 years from now when the job market has a flood of job candidates with advanced degrees? I suspect that what will happen is that salaries will start to go down with an over supply of so many graduate degrees. The law of supply and demand at work.
K-Luv, thanks for this posting. I am not big on USNWR rankings either, mainly because their measurements are biased toward private schools.
Things are always "biased" then they don't say what people want them to say. But this ranking (its not really a ranking though...) is fairly silly, its largely looking at money but not relative to the number of students or size of the school. Now...which are typically bigger public or private schools?
People that go to public schools can never seem to admit that the Ivy Leagues and a number of private schools are better.
People that go to public schools can never seem to admit that the Ivy Leagues and a number of private schools are better.
"Better" is such a subjective term.
I went to a Big State U. I do remember feeling somewhat overwhelmed. It can be very impersonal and cold. I think a secure, self-directed student can still thrive there. If they can get the bachelors sans debt it can be a win-win. They can always apply to upper-tier schools for graduate work, right?
My daughter, on the other hand, is very introverted. We felt that a small private school was the best fit for her. I was impressed by the fact that she was able to get a research assistant position in her second year. Very different experience from my college years and those of her friends who went on to state institutions.
I think it was that hands-on personal mentoring that led her to pursue graduate work in her field.
We, personally, found that a private education was more affordable (due to in-school grants and scholarships) than out-of-state tuition at (some) state universities. It is something I always urge potential students and parents to research.
About the only negative? She's surrounded by the "best of the best" on a daily basis. This has caused some self-doubt. I also worry that when she enters the "real world" she may be sorely disappointed!
My major is Geography. For whatever reason, it is more common to find this major at state schools. After a quick search on college board, 46 private colleges offer this major while 263 public colleges do. The only Ivy League with a Geography major is Dartmouth.
I think the reason is fairly obvious. But I have no idea what the ratio is like so I'll take your word for it.
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Originally Posted by city_data91
I placed just as much importance on the location as I did on the college itself. After all, I want to be happy with my surroundings.
I think this makes little sense, you should pick a college on its education merits. The surroundings are not going to help your future, not to mention every area of the country is nice in its own way.
But regardless, like I said before I'm not trying to make any comment about you personally. People, as you are demonstrating, use a variety of different criteria for selecting schools, often these criteria are irrelevant to the actual educational merit of the universities. I'm talking about the educational merit of the universities, not the merit of the people attending the universities. But for whatever reason people (especially middle-class) are rather sensitive about what university they go to, what university their kids go to, etc. Its something I've always found amusing.
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Originally Posted by city_data91
State universities tend to have a more extensive list of majors because they often have a lot of students and want to cater to all of them.
"Catering" to the whims of students is not exactly a good thing.
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Originally Posted by city_data91
I will not go into detail on my family's finances or what my dad does for a living, but we are far from lower middle class.
As your other comments, this one puts you squarely in the middle-class category (and I don't say this as an insult...only because you asked me about it). Your finances and your career are only mildly related to your social class, it is only the middle-class that equate the two. When a middle-class kid "makes it" by starting a successful business they don't magically become upper-class, rather they are Nouvaue Riche and will behave almost identically to other middle-class.
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Originally Posted by city_data91
Your statement about lower middle class people not fitting in at an Ivy League college is ironic because Ivy League colleges are concerned with making their school affordable for poor people (like you said earlier, a lot of people don't pay the sticker price). .
Not sure what is ironic about it, its not the university policies that make them uncomfortable its the student body. The university itself recognizes the fact that talent can be found in all socioeconomic backgrounds.
But a brilliant kid from a poor family going to Harvard is going to experience a lot of culture shock and a good number of the people are likely to treat them poorly.
I went to a Big State U. I do remember feeling somewhat overwhelmed. It can be very impersonal and cold. I think a secure, self-directed student can still thrive there. If they can get the bachelors sans debt it can be a win-win. They can always apply to upper-tier schools for graduate work, right?
I agree with this, success at the big state universities takes a person that is really driven and already knows what they want to do. You really have to seek out opportunities because, nobody is going to tell you about them and nobody is likely to ask you if you want to be involved. In contrast the private schools (especially the smaller ones) tend to be rather nurturing and try to find projects for the students, etc.
I went to pretty highly ranked public university for my undergrad, but I think I would have done better at a smaller private school even if it was lower ranking. I had no idea what I really wanted to do and by the time I figured things out it was too late to change course. But a private school was not an option for a variety of reasons.
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