That 18 mile stretch of I-25 from Monument to Castle Rock (Denver: to live in, train)

[Lightning_Hunter]

This has been part of the argument over the last two decades and guess what, construction costs have soared, population has soared, and it will be more painful than ever. Putting it off won't help at all. As Dr Dog points out above, even if the toll lane only takes 10% of the traffic, that is a pretty decent reduction in the other non toll lanes that will benefit those of us who don't want to pay.

I hear you, but part of me thinks we should just continue suffering until the government does this the right way, rather than the greedy way. I would love to have a nicer I-25 as much as the next guy, but if this means the government gets to screw us over yet again, I would rather say "no". They manipulated everyone on the ballot, and I'm surprised people are letting it go. When people showed concern, CDOT basically said "we are listening to you, but we are going to build toll lanes anyway just because we can".

Do people not realize they are getting triple taxed for this project? The State is taxing you, the federal government is taxing you, and now you have to pay a toll on top of that. This road will pay for itself multiple times over, yet the toll will remain (and probably even go up as time passes). I also have doubts about I-25 showing any improvement after this project is complete. It will just be 2 years of nightmare construction for a mostly unused lane to show for it.

I get your point about being able to move accidents over, but I seriously doubt that will help that much. Every time there is an accident, people always slow down to look, and traffic has to be directed anyway (ever seen what happens when there are accidents in Denver, despite all their lanes?). I know I will be avoiding the toll lane like the plague. Actually, I will likely be avoiding I-25 altogether. I'll bet 83 will become swamped shortly here.

[DrDog]

Originally Posted by Lightning_Hunter

I hear you, but part of me thinks we should just continue suffering until the government does this the right way, rather than the greedy way. I would love to have a nicer I-25 as much as the next guy, but if this means the government gets to screw us over yet again, I would rather say "no". They manipulated everyone on the ballot, and I'm surprised people are letting it go. When people showed concern, CDOT basically said "we are listening to you, but we are going to build toll lanes anyway just because we can".

Do people not realize they are getting triple taxed for this project? The State is taxing you, the federal government is taxing you, and now you have to pay a toll on top of that. This road will pay for itself multiple times over, yet the toll will remain (and probably even go up as time passes). I also have doubts about I-25 showing any improvement after this project is complete. It will just be 2 years of nightmare construction for a mostly unused lane to show for it.

I get your point about being able to move accidents over, but I seriously doubt that will help that much. Every time there is an accident, people always slow down to look, and traffic has to be directed anyway (ever seen what happens when there are accidents in Denver, despite all their lanes?). I know I will be avoiding the toll lane like the plague. Actually, I will likely be avoiding I-25 altogether. I'll bet 83 will become swamped shortly here.

Although I agree with you, the bottom line is that the government has our money, and if we don’t take this toll lane opportunity, the government will give our money to someone else willing to build a toll lane in another state.

[DoodlemomCoS]

Originally Posted by Lightning_Hunter

I get your point about being able to move accidents over, but I seriously doubt that will help that much. Every time there is an accident, people always slow down to look, and traffic has to be directed anyway (ever seen what happens when there are accidents in Denver, despite all their lanes?). I know I will be avoiding the toll lane like the plague. Actually, I will likely be avoiding I-25 altogether. I'll bet 83 will become swamped shortly here.

83, the best kept secret, is already getting bad. No longer a secret, I suppose.

[LHS79]

Originally Posted by DoodlemomCoS

83, the best kept secret, is already getting bad. No longer a secret, I suppose.

83 is getting bad- almost as fast to use I25 even with the stop and go if you get stuck behind a line of cars with the one in front going 45 mph.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DrDog

Although I agree with you, the bottom line is that the government has our money, and if we don’t take this toll lane opportunity, the government will give our money to someone else willing to build a toll lane in another state.

It's amazing how much El Paso County residents are getting their panties in a bunch over the <10% of the overall project funding that they're kicking in. $25 million doesn't buy an extra lane, it doesn't buy a new interchange, it probably buys a half dozen miles of widened shoulders. If El Paso was footing the majority of the project cost then their concerns would be more warranted, or if they agreed to pay for all maintenance for this segment of I-25 in perpetuity, but that's not the case. If you want four lanes in each direction (all general purpose), let El Paso chip in the $100M-$200M to get this done. Denver ran into the same issue with I-70 and we ended up paying somewhere in the range of $200M for stormwater improvements for the project, but even that amount isn't enough skin to demand free general purpose lanes instead of managed lanes.

[Lightning_Hunter]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

It's amazing how much El Paso County residents are getting their panties in a bunch over the <10% of the overall project funding that they're kicking in. $25 million doesn't buy an extra lane, it doesn't buy a new interchange, it probably buys a half dozen miles of widened shoulders. If El Paso was footing the majority of the project cost then their concerns would be more warranted, or if they agreed to pay for all maintenance for this segment of I-25 in perpetuity, but that's not the case. If you want four lanes in each direction (all general purpose), let El Paso chip in the $100M-$200M to get this done. Denver ran into the same issue with I-70 and we ended up paying somewhere in the range of $200M for stormwater improvements for the project, but even that amount isn't enough skin to demand free general purpose lanes instead of managed lanes.

Mr. Wong, how much are we paying the federal government in taxes compared to the state government or local government? In my paychecks, about 90% of my taxes go to the federal government. Don't give me this bull about us not paying enough in taxes. Even when it comes to local taxes, we had the "pothole tax" that mysteriously vanished in to thin air, and we had the marijuana tax that was squandered. We also pay more in sales tax than Denver. Maybe you should go complain to your own local government for your astronomical tax rates and ridiculous toll roads instead of taking out your deep bitter resentment on us. If you don't actually live here and don't pay taxes here, please stay out of it. I certainly don't go to the Denver forums and gripe about your low sales tax... It drives me crazy when people have this mentality of, "if we have to suffer, YOU have to suffer too!".

You are taking out your anger on the wrong people; go complain to the federal government or your own local government if you don't like your tax rates. I, for one, don't WANT Colorado Springs to become like Denver. I'm sorry you hate us so much, but you are the one who chose to live in Denver near all those toll roads.

[TimAZ]

Originally Posted by DrDog

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few
- spock

Yeah, as in three wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner? Are you really that shallow and naïve that you can't see your "solution" will end in a bad way?

TABOR is one of the greatest brakes on malignant government growth. The saddest thing in the world is a politician with no money to spend.

[DrDog]

Originally Posted by TimAZ

Yeah, as in three wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner? Are you really that shallow and naïve that you can't see your "solution" will end in a bad way?

TABOR is one of the greatest brakes on malignant government growth. The saddest thing in the world is a politician with no money to spend.

You clearly didn’t understand what I said. If you explain what you thought I meant, I might be able to enlighten you.

[DrDog]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

It's amazing how much El Paso County residents are getting their panties in a bunch over the <10% of the overall project funding that they're kicking in. $25 million doesn't buy an extra lane, it doesn't buy a new interchange, it probably buys a half dozen miles of widened shoulders. If El Paso was footing the majority of the project cost then their concerns would be more warranted, or if they agreed to pay for all maintenance for this segment of I-25 in perpetuity, but that's not the case. If you want four lanes in each direction (all general purpose), let El Paso chip in the $100M-$200M to get this done. Denver ran into the same issue with I-70 and we ended up paying somewhere in the range of $200M for stormwater improvements for the project, but even that amount isn't enough skin to demand free general purpose lanes instead of managed lanes.

I think you might be exaggerating a bit here?

[Vision67]

https://www.csindy.com/TheWire/archi...-the-expansion

"Most Colorado Springs drivers would agree: The most frustrating, anxiety-inducing section of any commute along the Interstate 25 corridor is the 18-mile "gap" between Monument and Castle Rock, where a quick 30-minute trip to the outlet mall can turn into a two-hour ordeal.

After voters approved two ballot measures that allotted money to widen that notorious portion of the highway, and the Colorado Department of Transportation gave the final go-ahead in June, construction is almost ready to begin to add new lanes in each direction.

In spite of protests from county commissioners and constituents, CDOT has decided those lanes will be toll lanes. (That's in part because a $65-million federal grant to help with construction stipulates that's necessary.) However, CDOT proclaims in an Aug. 15 statement that those tolls will be the lowest in the state — $0.15 per mile, or around $2.25 for a total trip."

"Motorcycles and vehicles carrying three or more people will be able to use the lanes for free"


Work starts near Castle Rock in September.