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Except your "facts" were completely wrong and not worth arguing. But here we are.
I doubt any of my facts were wrong. You just don't read carefully, nor know remotely as much about Greater Cleveland as you have represented. I'll tackle perhaps your greatest inaccuracy now. More later, if I get the time. It's time-consuming to document your erroneous statements.
Your post 39:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 304eer
For instance:
Cleveland metropark system which you claimed was higher quality and larger. Cleveland metroparks encompass 23,000 acres. Columbus metroparks is 27,700 acres
From post my post 33:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative
Greater Cleveland's FIVE county (metro) park systems collectively greatly exceed those in Columbus in quality and acreage, not even including Cuyahoga Valley National Park and the exceptional Holden Arboretum
Did you miss or IGNORE my reference to the FIVE county park systems that serve Greater Cleveland, in comparison to the single system serving Greater Columbus???
Greater Cleveland has five separate systems in five counties. In addition to the Cleveland Metroparks system (23,000 acres), with a substantial amount of acreage outside of Cuyahoga County, there are Lake Metroparks (8,100 acres), the Geauga Park District (10,000 acres), Medina County Park District (6,300 acres), and Lorain Metro Parks (9,000 acres).
That's a total of 56,400 acres in Greater Cleveland county (metro) parks, over double the acreage of county parks in Greater Columbus, even though the Columbus MSA population is larger than Greater Cleveland (MSA) and covers a much larger land area.
The Franklin and Central Ohio Metroparks serves seven counties.
The federal government owns an additional 19,000 acres in the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, which also protects acreage owned by the Cleveland Metroparks and Summit Metro Parks, which has an additional 14,300 acres adjacent to Cleveland's Cuyahoga County (but in the Akron Metro; all of Franklin County's adjacent counties are included in the Columbus metro as well as several non-contiguous counties).
Among privately owned nature preserves, Holden Arboretum stands out. It's less than 30 miles from downtown Cleveland, and, with 3,500 acres, is one of the nation's largest and best arboretums.
Greater Cleveland includes great parks and beaches on Lake Erie, including Mentor Headlands Beach State Park and the adjacent Mentor Dunes State Nature Preserve, Mentor's Mentor Lagoons Nature Preserve with over a mile of wild beach, and the Mentor Marsh State Nature Preserve, a National Natural Landmark.
Ian Adams, likely Ohio's most prominent and active landscape artist, is especially fond of Lake County's natural attractions.
You claimed Cleveland had a larger downtown population. A quick google shows that Cleveland's downtown population is 15,000. Columbus' downtown population is 49,000.
Also, I will stand behind my "Cleveland has the smallest feel" comment. Cleveland has 6 of the tallest 20 buildings in Ohio. Columbus has 10 of 20. Cincinnati has 4.
*DOWNTOWN POPULATION FACTS*
Downtown Cleveland has the largest residential population out of all three of "THE BIG 3 C's" in the State of Ohio. The present population of residents living downtown has eclipsed the 15,000 benchmark and is easily going to surpass and attain the next benchmark of 20,000 residents by the year 2020. Downtown Cleveland is booming and thriving almost beyond belief as yet thousands of more residential units are being built. It also now boasts the largest daily downtown "workforce" with people commuting in not only by car, but also via the city's vast public commuter train and bus system. (Another critical and missing element in Columbus. COTA falls woefully short of what is provided by the GCRTA - Greater Cleveland Regional Rapid Transit Authority)
Where on Earth did you come up with Downtown Columbus having 49,000 residential residents?
No city in Ohio can honestly boast of any such astronomical RESIDENTIAL population numbers in their central business district.
*BIGGEST DOWNTOWN FEEL?*
I almost had to laugh at this one. With Cleveland having the infrastructure and built out environment for a city that once held almost 1 Million people, one can easily see and gain the "feel" that you're approaching a very large and an important city. Cleveland was once the 5th largest city in America and through it's considerable "bones" this still shows.
Having lived in Columbus before, I can tell you unequivocally that there's no comparison between the "BIG CITY FEEL" of these two cities. Columbus has a larger city population, but Cleveland still maintains that unmistakable aura and prominence of being a larger city. Columbus is making progress, but it will be some years off before they can match "THE BIG CITY FEEL" of Cleveland. Just the other day while lounging among the splendor of the fabulously reimagined Public Square, I encountered a large group of people visiting from California for a conference. One of them said to me that Cleveland "feels like a mini NYC" to him. I told him that I hear that quite often, which is true. Cleveland's much more iconic and larger turn of the century architecture lends this presence to the city.
It honestly just depends on what vibe you're going for, your demographic, and what type of environment you enjoy.
Cleveland was an industrial powerhouse and among the nation's largest cities while Columbus was a third of the size. As a result, Cleveland has a much grittier urban environment, a plethora of cultural institutions, and significantly more professional sports. It also has more traditional ethnic enclaves/neighborhoods. Cleveland has the giant lake which is beautiful in the summer.
Columbus is currently booming and has yet to reach its peak. The central core of the city is a lot more gentrified, shiny and new in comparison to Cleveland (although there are some really cool historic neighborhoods e.g. German Village, Victorian Village, Olde Towne East etc.). The Buckeyes are king here and regularly pack over 100,000 people into the stadium and are ranked #4 in the nation for college football programs, even if you aren't into sports it is a very unique community event that I recommend participating in at least once. Columbus is more "anglo" than Cleveland but has increasing diversity, one of the largest African immigrant populations in the country and growing Mexican and Asian communities as well. Columbus has a huge LGBT community as well. The Scioto Mile (the downtown riverfront) is extremely pleasant and the city did a great job in its redevelopment.
Downtown Cleveland has the largest residential population out of all three of "THE BIG 3 C's" in the State of Ohio. The present population of residents living downtown has eclipsed the 15,000 benchmark and is easily going to surpass and attain the next benchmark of 20,000 residents by the year 2020. Downtown Cleveland is booming and thriving almost beyond belief as yet thousands of more residential units are being built. It also now boasts the largest daily downtown "workforce" with people commuting in not only by car, but also via the city's vast public commuter train and bus system. (Another critical and missing element in Columbus. COTA falls woefully short of what is provided by the GCRTA - Greater Cleveland Regional Rapid Transit Authority)
Where on Earth did you come up with Downtown Columbus having 49,000 residential residents?
No city in Ohio can honestly boast of any such astronomical RESIDENTIAL population numbers in their central business district.
I doubt any of my facts were wrong. You just don't read carefully, nor know remotely as much about Greater Cleveland as you have represented. I'll tackle perhaps your greatest inaccuracy now. More later, if I get the time. It's time-consuming to document your erroneous statements.
Your post 39:
From post my post 33:
Did you miss or IGNORE my reference to the FIVE county park systems that serve Greater Cleveland, in comparison to the single system serving Greater Columbus???
Greater Cleveland has five separate systems in five counties. In addition to the Cleveland Metroparks system (23,000 acres), with a substantial amount of acreage outside of Cuyahoga County, there are Lake Metroparks (8,100 acres), the Geauga Park District (10,000 acres), Medina County Park District (6,300 acres), and Lorain Metro Parks (9,000 acres).
That's a total of 56,400 acres in Greater Cleveland county (metro) parks, over double the acreage of county parks in Greater Columbus, even though the Columbus MSA population is larger than Greater Cleveland (MSA) and covers a much larger land area.
The Franklin and Central Ohio Metroparks serves seven counties.
The federal government owns an additional 19,000 acres in the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, which also protects acreage owned by the Cleveland Metroparks and Summit Metro Parks, which has an additional 14,300 acres adjacent to Cleveland's Cuyahoga County (but in the Akron Metro; all of Franklin County's adjacent counties are included in the Columbus metro as well as several non-contiguous counties).
Among privately owned nature preserves, Holden Arboretum stands out. It's less than 30 miles from downtown Cleveland, and, with 3,500 acres, is one of the nation's largest and best arboretums.
Greater Cleveland includes great parks and beaches on Lake Erie, including Mentor Headlands Beach State Park and the adjacent Mentor Dunes State Nature Preserve, Mentor's Mentor Lagoons Nature Preserve with over a mile of wild beach, and the Mentor Marsh State Nature Preserve, a National Natural Landmark.
Ian Adams, likely Ohio's most prominent and active landscape artist, is especially fond of Lake County's natural attractions.
The Columbus metro does include the great state parks in Hocking County. I didn't realize this until researching this reply.
You didn't tackle the other because you have no rebuttal for them. But good try though. I'm done. Cleveland is a **** town in a ****ty area. If ya'll want to live there, feel free
Your mistake is in posting highly erroneous information, particularly when it comes to population numbers. Here, I have easily obtained the TRUE FACTS regarding the number of inhabitants who actually LIVE IN DOWNTOWN COLUMBUS.
Downtown Columbus has around 8,100 year round residents, while faster developing Downtown Cleveland has more than 15,000 year round residents. That's almost DOUBLE THE NUMBER of people living in the Central Business District of Cleveland.
49,000 residents is an absurdly high figure, surely even you didnt believe this, did you??
Here are the TRUE FIGURES for the population of Downtown Columbus:
You didn't tackle the other because you have no rebuttal for them. But good try though. I'm done. Cleveland is a **** town in a ****ty area. If ya'll want to live there, feel free
As badly I demolished your falsehoods about the relative size of county metro parks in Greater Columbus versus Greater Cleveland, it's wishful, and wrongful, thinking on your part that your other misstatements won't be exposed.
As for the rest of your post, it reveals your true character. You're not interested in objective reality, but only the denigration of Greater Cleveland in comparison to Greater Columbus, even if you have to misrepresent reality to achieve your goal. This was evident to me from your first posts, but you've now made your mindset clear to any reader of your posts. Your ignorant and juvenile bias is noted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 304eer
Except your "facts" were completely wrong and not worth arguing. But here we are.
For instance:
You claimed Cleveland had a larger downtown population. A quick google shows that Cleveland's downtown population is 15,000. Columbus' downtown population is 49,000.
Your source for a downtown Columbus of 49,000 does not provide a map. I've gone through this with Cincinnati homers who want to expand Cincinnati's downtown population to include neighborhoods not recognized as "downtown" even by the city of Cincinnati. Their source, like yours, was a website that loosely defined downtown Columbus to include areas not actually in downtown Columbus. The point2homes website cited by you defines downtown Columbus to include both zip codes for 43215 AND zip code 43201.
The latter, including areas east of Ohio State and north of 2nd Avenue is NOT part of downtown Columbus. Its population is 35,500.
And not all of zip code 43215 is in downtown Columbus. The 43215 zip code even includes the residential areas off Dublin Ave. south and WEST of Grandview Heights!!!
The Downtown Cleveland Alliance expects the downtown Cleveland population to exceed 18,000 by the end of 2018 and reach 20,000 by 2020, given housing projects already under development.
An expansive view of downtown Cleveland, just picking up the adjacent Ohio City and Tremont neighborhoods, also would greatly swell the population of "downtown" Cleveland, and, unlike in Columbus, there are robust mass transit connections, including the Red Line rail rapid, to these adjacent neighborhoods from downtown Cleveland.
Your argument, if you have one, is with the Downtown Columbus association about the downtown Columbus residential population.
Downtown Cleveland, unlike downtown Columbus, has residential amenities like the Avenue shopping mall at Tower City or the acclaimed Heinen's supermarket at the Cleveland Trust Rotunda. The latter is the envy of visitors from across North America and even the world and is located at the intersection of downtown's two most prominent arteries (East 9th and Euclid Ave.). Visitors to both downtowns could quickly ascertain anecdotally that downtown Cleveland supports a much larger downtown population than downtown Columbus.
Heinen's is even a tourist attraction given its unique excellence!
Cleveland - Rust belt city (Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, etc). Smallest feel of the three although it has the highest metro population. Has many large suburbs. Dirtier, industrial city. The lake and Playhouse Square (arts and theatre district) are great assets that you can't get in the other cities.
This is quite a statement.
Key Tower is still one the tallest skyscrapers in the nation, and Cleveland is one the handful of U.S. cities to actually have heavy rail metro. That's not even getting into the airport, MLB, NFL, NBA, etc.
If someone could explain how Columbus feels bigger without the usual population growth citations, I'd be most interested.
Uh, I wouldn’t rely on a real estate sales web site; there’s this thing called “puffery” also known as lying. This is a case in point.
The link says it's using 43215, which is the entirety of downtown Columbus, but then also 43201, which in no way shape or form is downtown Columbus. Trying to include Ohio State student population a few miles away to boost stats.
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